Talk:The Kingdom Hearts (5e Subclass)

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Hi, firstly, it's not really clear who your pact is with. Secondly, couldn't this tie into your choice of pact item at 3rd level? So that if you choose pact of the blade, that's your keyblade, and you're not re-inventing the wheel. But you've also got a "keyfamiliar" and "keybook". Marasmusine (talk) 20:02, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Since the Keyblade is sentient, you made your pact with it, Gleaming is a minor magical property (DMG pg 143) that means the item does not get dirty. I'm not sure what to do about the low damage, because any more than 2d8 seems too much since you can dual wield Keyblades if you get a specific exclusive Keyblade Invocation and the Pact of the Blade feature. It's a good idea about the different pacts, but that would be quite difficult to implement, and a lot of the Invocations revolve around transfiguring your Keyblade. (Also, it's based on a game so the Keyblade is kind of the point of the Archetype, and the Invocations and the Expanded spell list are a way of simulating the game's mechanics.)


Hey, just dropping by to deliver my 2 cents. As it stands I feel that this patron is very lackluster in terms of delivery. Before offense is had, I applaud your devotion to the source material in terms of lore and translated mechanics. BUT I feel that maybe a step back is in order.

I feel that your current mechanics range from the unispired meh of "just throw MOAR numbers at it" to wildly unbound invocations that attempt to enforce a video games high pulp over-ther-top-explosion-fest. There are a couple of gems that I did enjoy, the bonus Patron Specific invocations was neat (i do feel 3 is a bit much though).

I'll second Marasmusine's suggestion the the Keyblade itself be tied into the warlocks Boons. Another approach is to limit the PC boon choices to Blade only. Each option has its own list of consequences. By limiting the boon choice to Blade only you allow for a more focused and faithful recreation of the source material, but also remove a huge chunk of the Warlock classes flexibility (something that is a HUGE part of its class identity).

The keyblades themselves represent a force to preserve, protect, and balance the worlds right? Why not try and emphasize that aspect instead of the physical manifestation of the keyblades themselves? I mean in same of the Kingdom Hearts games, there keyblades turn into friggn' vehicles to travel between worlds. I think if you shift the fluff of this class to be that of what the keyblades represent vs what they physically are, you open the door for characters to be more diverse and interesting.

In summary this idea is far from complete, but please don't give up on it. Your ideas do feel like there is driving force and potential lurking but they feel hampered by devotion to the source material from a mechanical standpoint vice converting it from the lore side of things.--Gr7mm Bobb (talk) 14:20, 27 April 2017 (UTC)

Hello again, fellow wikian! Here are some comments on the Keyblade patron:

  • Spells, Invocations, and Others. I have never played Kingdom Hearts myself, nor am I a big fan of it (although I do enjoy Shin Megami Tensei and Persona franchise), but I am confident with one thing: JRPG and D&D poorly mix. The basic philosophy is so entirely different, especially with character improvement. In JRPG, you gain access to "better" skills and spells as you gain more levels; in D&D, you can just cast the same spell with higher-level spell slot to achieve better effects, and you learn more spells for different effect, rather than better effects. (knock is not exactly better than magic missile, right? That's like saying an orange is better than an apple.) Because of this reason, I suggest removing all invocations that grants spellcasting at all, and add some of the spells into the Patron-exclusive spell list.
I am also against giving too many spells to warlocks, because less spell is pretty much what defines a class called warlock. Limited list of spells, limited number of spell slots, but faster spell slot regeneration and always strong spells. Giving too much variety on spell, even if it's a once-per-long-rest type, can easily threatens balance.
  • Keyblade. I must say that the current Keyblade is rather... boring, for a famous weapon artifact from a equally famous franchise. I thought a shortsword can provide a perfect statistics for a Keyblade, except for a part where you can perform a 1-hour ritual to change the damage type. I also think it definitely deserves some more bonus than just a damage and reach improvement. Maybe it can act as a skeleton key for a gate large enough? (Forgive my lack of imagination, I've never played KH games.)
You can take a look at the Hexblade patron from Unearthed Arcana article for some more ideas. Personally, I think this would greatly help you revise the Keyblade patron.
  • Invocation Expertise / Invocation Advancement. This reminds me of a fighter back in 3.5rd edition - no "proper" class features, just more martial feats. The difference between 3.5e martial feats and 5e warlock invocations is, an invocation is strong enough to be half- to full-level feature. Granting six extra invocations, even when it's limited to Keyblade-exclusive, is a dangerous approach.
  • Pact of the Blade? Marasmusine and Gr7mm Bobb have a point here: Currently, the Pact of the Blade and the Keyblade patron kinda overlaps. Again, the Hexblade patron might provide you a way to keep things interesting enough without becoming too like a Pact feature.

Well, that's it for me. In short: The Patron features definitely deserves more, and the invocations might be too much as a current state. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 07:46, 28 April 2017 (UTC)

Okay, I have removed the exclusive invocations entirely until I have more appropriate ones and added some possible Boon Improvements. Feedback is appreciated​, and thank you all for your advice and guidance so far. AngelsAndAarakocra (talk) 10:37, 29 April 2017.

Hello again, fellow wikian! I see that you might need some help, so I looked up some articles from wikia and other sites (I cannot play more videogames I already do, my apologies) and would like you to give you some suggestions.

  • Different Patron? Now, I'm not saying that your attempt of making a warlock patron from Kingdom Hearts franchise is poor or anything. But as far as I can see, the problem kinda stems with the patron being a keyblade, which I should say kinda limits the potentials.
Which is why I would like to suggest having the very world of Kingdom Heart itself as a patron, rather than the keyblade. From what I've read from KH Wikia, the world of Kingdom Heart "is the heart of all worlds, and a source of great power and wisdom." I think it would definitely make a good warlock patron. Furthermore, there is an Unearthed Arcana article that introduces a patron that is essentially the pure energy from the positive plane, so having the entire world as a patron wouldn't be so outrageous. (Reminds me of the concept of Counter Guardian from Fate series, now that I talk of it.)
This way, you can have the keyblade as both the Pact feature and the archetype feature, by using a way to make an invocation as suggested in another Unearthed Arcana article. This is a method I strongly recommend, but not forcing you to do so. After all, it's your work, you will have the ultimate decision. I'm just glad to be of help, even if it's just nitpicking. Hope my suggestions help your work. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 13:41, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
What a brilliant idea about the patron! I'm definitely going to make that edit - but do you know how to change the page's name - it would be good to be able to change it. I'll take a look at the UA article too. Thanks for the excellent input :P
AngelsAndAarakocra (talk) 16:22, 3 May 2017
Thanks for the comment - always glad to be of service. To move the page, you can use the "Move" tab at the top of each page. Be careful, though, when changing the name of the title - if you're not sure yourself, you can call an admin for help, or maybe I can do it for you. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 15:38, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
Thanks for the offer, I don't really understand the technical workings of the website so if you wouldn't mind that would be really helpful :) Thanks!
AngelsAndAarakocra (talk) 17:45, 3 May 2017
Just did that. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 16:55, 3 May 2017 (UTC)
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