Talk:The Agilomancer (3.5e Optimized Character Build)

Can be done quicker

Albeit it is not SRD but taking an arcane caster as first level and Precocious Apprentice, and at second level a divine caster, and at third something else with the Alternate Spell Source will allow you to get into the class at level 4.

How Is This Good?

Keep in mind that taking the necropolitan template bumps ya down to the start of level 2. From 3000 XP at level three you loose a level, going down 2000 XP (halfway between levels 2 and 3), and then loose 1000 more.

I'm not really seeing why anyone would actually want to play this. Congratulations, you're two spellcaster levels behind and you suck. Surgo 09:26, 4 August 2009 (MDT)

Eh, as long as it's only 2 spellcaster levels behind, I could see it being viable. Though I'd probably do something like Sorc 2 / Shugenja 1 (why Shugenja? Why not cleric or favored soul or spirit shaman or druid or...) or w/e so you're only 2 levels behind in one class. Not really seeing the point of Swashbuckler, though I might be missing something. --Ghostwheel 09:29, 4 August 2009 (MDT)

Actually, you could probably get a good true necromancer build out of this. I'm not sure if Improved Sigil (Krau) really works that way, however. Otherwise, you could get into a lot of PrCs at 3rd level (only because of skill requirements, otherwise, it would be 2nd). Paragnostic Apostle for one. Also, I see no reason to use a terrible caster class like sorcerer if it does work that way. Any arcane/divine combo should work. --Aarnott 09:48, 4 August 2009 (MDT)

I'm personally partial to sorcs, but I agree--though I'm not sure Improved Sigil (Krau) really works that way either... :-S --Ghostwheel 09:50, 4 August 2009 (MDT)

I wasn't aware that any build involving True Necromancer could be considered good. Surgo 09:58, 4 August 2009 (MDT)

If this worked, perhaps something like Arcane 2 / Cleric 1 (for Turn Undead) / Mystic Theurge 10 / True Necromancer 7 could be good? --Ghostwheel 10:02, 4 August 2009 (MDT)

Well, by the wording on Improved Sigil (Krau), which I still honestly doubt can work that way, you might be able to argue that gaining a new spellcasting class triggers the reassignment of free spell level boosts. In that case, you could have a build like Cleric 1/Wizard 1/Mystic Theurge 4/True Necromancer 14. That would be a good build I think. Even as Ghostwheel suggested, but replace as many MT levels with TN as possible would be good. Perhaps not an Ur Priest/Sublime Chord/Lyricist build, but still good. --Aarnott 10:03, 4 August 2009 (MDT)

Am I missing something? The Mystic Theurge requirements includes 6 points in knowledge arcana and 6 in knowledge religion: so you cannot use a class that do not have it as class skill. Increasing to 6 with a cross cast is too slow. No Favored Soul for example and surely nothing like Arcane 2 / Cleric 1 / Mystic Theurge 1 as the third level you cannot have a 6 as base value of a skill. About the cross cast you can reduce the problem with the `Educated' feat, but it would require you are Human or another race with a bonus feat (As you need two feats at the first level: Precocious Apprentice and Educated. On the other hand Wizard/Archivist is completely INT based and Sorcerer/Shugenja is completely CHA based. It is not probably the most power player class around, but it is pretty nice and even credible. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 79.30.128.107 (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts.

True Necromancer Is Crap.

There, it's been said. You're crazy in how many caster levels behind you are. With a standard build, you're 5 levels behind on BOTH Sides. Wow. That's uber suck. With my build, You're 1 caster level behind on one set, and three caster levels behind on another. 4 Caster Levels Behind Total Versus 10 caster levels behind total. Yeah. I thought as much.

Now if your DM doesn't allow the revised Epic Mystic Theurge, THEN you have a problem, but not as big as one might guess. You could easily dump your remaining levels in your divine spellcasting class. Then you'd be a Divine caster who can use 9th level spells with access to level 5 or 6 arcane spells. Which isn't bad, considering it's NOT a MAD character at all. In fact, much of your combat prowess is based off of 2 stats. (Int/Cha and Dex, respectively) If you want, you can even dump your extra levels into your arcane spellcasting class, and now you've got access to level 8 arcane and level 7 divine. Still. Not bad.

Sure, we'll all hear the argument that undead aren't the greatest PC's. Instant death at 0 hp, yadda yadda. But compare it to a normal Wizard with 14 con and d4 Hit Dice. If he rolls average (which he probably will.) You're looking at Having... around 70 hp (80 including -10). 90 if you have 16 con (100 including -10). Now if you compare that to this build, who's going to have juicy d12s, You're looking at around 130 HP, and those delicious undead traits.

You can't take epic level PrCs (or continue regular PrCs beyond their described level, making it effectively an epic-level PrC) until you're considered an epic-level character--that is, level 21. As per the SRD, "A ten-level prestige class can progress beyond 10th level, but only if the character level is already 20th or higher." --Ghostwheel 15:15, 21 August 2009 (MDT)

Invalid

You cannot enter the Mystic Theurge that way. I quote the `Precocious Apprentice` feat description:

[...]
When you become able to cast 2nd-level spells, you lose the benefit
described above but retain the extra 2nd-level spell slot, which you
can use to prepare or spontaneously cast a spell of 2nd level or lower
as you normally would.

Let's see the Sorcere Shugenja pair: until level 4 you can actually cast a second level Arcane spell, but once you get your fourth level as Shugenja you get an extra slot for level 2 spells of the Shugenja class and you lose your 2nd level spell Arcane spell. Sure your DM can read the feat as ``When you become able to cast _ARCANE_ 2nd-level spells...``; but it is not how is written. Ezzetabi 15:04, 6 May 2010 (UTC)