Talk:Spriggan (3.5e Race)

I am loving this race, it reminds me of some of my favorite fantasy stories.

However, LA +1 seems very cheap for what this race offers.

The two weapon fighting and treasure/hidden doors finding - probably aren't an issue. TWF-style fighting is generally considered in need of buffing, and the finding abilities have no effect in combat. And the weapon usage, not requiring feats to use a weapon, might be ok.

But the flight, speed, wall-running, and illusion spells are certainly significant.

Just some thoughts. Again, I really like the concept and 'feel' of this race. reddir (talk) 19:53, 5 February 2014 (MST)

@Reddir

I brought the abilities down some. The flying can only be used Outside. The Illusion Spells got cut down to 7. And Yes, the Treasure Magic is not combat based, it is solely meant to help the group find hidden areas or loot. If there is anything else, feel free to tack it on here.

I rearranged the wording in a few places, though I tried to stay within the bounds of your ideas. If this is not welcome, feel free to let me know or just revert the changes. I hope more people get a chance to consider this race. reddir (talk) 22:04, 9 February 2014 (MST)

I added some (Ex) and (Sp) labels. I am not sure what to label the wings - they would be (Ex) except for the ability to summon/dismiss them... reddir (talk) 10:07, 10 February 2014 (MST)

No, your good, just try not to stray from the original idea. The wings is more of Physical Ability because they are not connected to your body truly, it is if you concentrate you can summon them to fly as if you had muscle and bones to work wings. I also cut the Illusion to 6 Spells and the Polymorph ability was kicked up to level 8.

This sounds like a Supernatural (Su) ability.

That change to the spells clears up my concerns about LA for this race. And there is no harm in listing an advanced version, either as an additional LA +1 or from a Paragon Class level, which goes back to the earlier apell abilities. The write-up for the Allurin Race lists the more advanced version just below the main, LA+0, entry. reddir (talk) 14:51, 10 February 2014 (MST)

The other races of SAO

I took this race from Sword Art Online, an anime. It is from the second ark of it in ALO. It has quite a few more races like Undines, Imps, Gnomes, and around 5 or 4 others. I was wondering if you would like to help make/alter them. They all have a few unique abilities that i think could be made into D&D.

I am not great at this, but can try to take a look. However, I am happy to follow up your work with minor grammar/spelling help. reddir (talk) 15:10, 10 February 2014 (MST)

That isnt a problem, all i need you to do, if you want, is spell check and re-write it to feel more comfortable. They All will have a (SAO) tag on them. I'm going to say the order im going to do it.

   Undine- Up and Done 9:00 -2/10/14 Central Time, Check It Out
   Imp - Up and Done 10:11 P.m. 2/11/14 Central Time, Check It Out
   Pooka - Up and Done 5:42 PM 2/12/14 Central Time, Check it Out
   Cait Sith
   Sylph
   Leprechaun
   Salamander
   Gnome

I'll keep an eye out for the (SAO) tag. In the meantime, I will try to check out the anime, and hopefully get a better sense of what you are going for.

I'm going to try to have Undine up by tonight and 2-4 others after school on Tuesday.

Once you are done, could you tell me that way i can IP protect it. Thanks Reddir.

I'm not the best at working consistently or in a timely manner. If you want to IP protect your work, it may be best to do it now. I can post any thoughts I have for rewording to your user page here on dandwiki. I can do this for all the SAO work you post (I see you have the Undine and Imp up).

Also, I've been watching SAO. I finished Crime Within the Walls earlier today. Its a lot of fun, and conveys the atmosphere very nicely without going over the top - a nice balance I haven't seen very often. I still have not seen the creatures you have posted - are they in the anime or the manga? reddir (talk) 22:44, 11 February 2014 (MST)

They are in both of them, just in the second arc of the manga/anime. (SPOILERS) Once they beat SAO they move to Alfheim Online and that is where the races are, im just pulling them from the wiki.

SAO

I just watched the beginning prologue to SAO episode 1. I felt a thrill, like I did with my first steps in Asheron's Call, so very long ago. I'd forgotten this rush... I'm going back to the ep once I calm down a bit. reddir (talk) 21:10, 10 February 2014 (MST)

Just got to the first 'Sinister Twist'. I'm kinda amazed how they got me firing on all cylinders with such simple scenes - it really captured what it was like to enter MMOs for the first time, even to interactions with strangers. reddir (talk) 21:21, 10 February 2014 (MST)

p.s. For anyone else (in USA) interested in watching SAO, hulu has it. reddir (talk) 22:06, 10 February 2014 (MST)

Balance

Just the racial abilites are probably too powerful for an LA +1 class, and the illusion magic ability is both poorly explained and overpowered; granting nearly full spellcasting (how many spells per day, etc), granting spell levels far too quickly (8th level spells at lvl 8!?). In addition, you may wish to look more into the 'average' Spriggan, and not just Kirito; I do not believe that dual wielding is an inherent Spriggan ability, nor the high dex and strength. The weapon mastery ability doesn't truly fit either, and is very powerful; no non-proficiency penalty removes the need for exotic weapon proficiencies unless the player needs to take weapon-focus feats and the like. Your abilities need some work to fit DnD syntax better as well; for something like darkvision you can copy from the drow page or something. I'm not sure about the wall-running ability, but it should probably still require climb checks or something; WotC Ninja classes (such as the one in Complete Adventurer) might be able to provide some help. Here's a few suggestions.

• Ability mods: Reduce both penalties and bonuses. Make sure they fit the race, not just Kirito
• Remove the weapon and dual wielding abilities; they are specific to Kirito, not the race. Perhaps replace them with racial weapon proficiencies, IIRC there are racial favored weapons and for the various races.
• Wall Running; Replace/redo to fit more in with the Speed Climb ability of the Ninja from the 3.5 splatbook Complete Adventurer to make it fit in better.
• Flight. Flight is a very powerful ability, especially at low levels. Giving it outright at level one, even with usage limits, is rather excessive. Check out the Raptoran race in Races of the Wild; it has a rather well-balanced LA 0 race with flight. Basically, give it much more limited flight at lower levels, ramping up as the player levels. It might be a slight break from SAO cannon, but consider giving it unlimited flight at higher levels. I would suggest limiting the flight to mere rounds per day before level 5, with the ability to glide much more freely, expanding to minutes and hours at lvl 5 and 10; by level 10 or 15, flight would then be basically or actually unlimited. Edit to add: Flight Maneuverability should start low and increase with level. Remember that levels denote experience; there is no level system in Alfhiem but there is in DnD. I'd recommend starting at Clumsy, go up to Poor at lvl 5, and Average at lvl 10; the player can take feats to improve their Maneuverability rating if they chose to. The only change would be that regardless of rating, any Alf can hover and has no minimum forward speed.
• Night Sight: Copy-paste the darkvision text from something else
• Treasure Hunter Magic: This isn't described very well, such as it's limits and exact effects. I'd suggest giving the Spriggan an at-will "Detect Magic" ability, with the limit that it can only detect magic items. If you're dead set on letting if find all treasure types, give the Detect Magic effect the ability to notice an aura for value as well. Maybe create a new "Detect Treasure" 0-level spell and grant that as an at-will; it's effect would detect and "aura of value" for items of value greater than 1 gp; large enough values would blind the caster, with the amount needed to blind increasing with caster level.
• Polymorph: in SAO this was an illusionary effect, not an actual transformation. I'd remove it.
• Illusion Magic: This needs an overhaul. Granting straight up spellcasting without requiring levels is rather overpowered. I'd recomend setting this up as a +1 to caster level and DC for illusion magic (the CL will make up for the level lost to LA, for one thing), simply making the Spriggan a better illusion spellcaster instead of innately a spellcaster (maybe give it a few spell-like ablites instead). The other option would be to give the race 1-3 racial hit-die, and have them count as and stack with wizard or sorcerer levels (look at the Rakshasa, with the spells learned restricted to Illusion spells and a small list of other spells (like divination and maybe a couple buffs like a Camouflage effect).
• and lastly, remember that you are adapting a race to DnD, not simply adding it. You may have to make some changes that do not fit perfectly with the race as it exists in the source material to make it work naturally/seamlessly in DnD (such as flight and spell-casting). Good luck! Zau (talk) 22:45, 26 May 2014 (MDT)