Talk:Spartan (3.5e Class)

Please feel free to talk about the class here. Offer suggestions if you have any!

Complete

This isn't. You've not got an NPC. --Badger 14:48, 5 June 2011 (MDT)

Your base attack bonus has a problem

You need something for spartan weapons like being able to hold a lance in one hand and a shield

Suggestions

i really like this class. however, some ideas to improve it:

1. Spartan awareness looks cool, but it would be nice if it a)advanced over time, for instance improving to +2 at 8th level, and +3 at 14th level, and +4 at 20th, and b) give the increase to initiative as well

2. remember that full attacks will eventually get multiple attacks in a round. it might be a good idea to lower the damage of the precise strike to a maximum of 5 or 6d6 extra damage per hit, and make at least half, if not all, of the damage count as precision-based (undead, etc. are immune) since some of the extra damage has to come for attacking vital organs.

3. shields. shields, other than bucklers, cannot be used with two handed weapons, such as spears (other than shortspears) so it would make sense to give them either the ability to use a spear one handed, or let them use a shield in the offhand while using a two handed spear. give this at first level. for the shield bashing ability, again reduce the damage, probably to less than whatever the precise strike is (it doesnt make sense to deal more damage with a shield than a spear). then, give the spartan the feat impoved shield bash, allowing them to keep their shield bonus to AC when bashing. instead of letting them bash and stab twice an encounter, give them the two-weapon fighting feats, only when using a shield and spear, allowing them to combine spear and shield attacks every round. give the first at 2nd, 3rd, 4th or 5th level, then give the next 5 levels later, and the third 5 levels after that. the fort save or knockdown is kinda powerful, maybe make it a X per day abilty, something like 1+STR or CON mod per day, + another one 1 every 4 levels. this applies even without my suggested revision, someone could easily as it stands use a shield as their main weapon, taking improved shield bash and bashing as their main attack.

4. spartan commander looks like a cool ability, but 1d20 heal doesnt make much sense, it is too variable. also, i think the ability should progress. thus, change it from a once-a-day 1d20 to "once per day, starting at 6th level, heal 3d6 (or 3d8), +1 time per day every six levels therafter (twice a day at 12th, three a day at 18th)."

5. the true spartan ability has no limit on changing targets, so it essentially translates as a permanent +2 to hit. maybe restrict target changing, as in "once you have designated your target, you cannot change your target until your current target leaves your line of sight, or dies." this will make it require careful target selection. the -2 AC, not applying to allies, is confusing, and is functionally identical to a +2 to hit against a single target.

6. the charging rampage seems overpowered as an always hit. instead, allow the spartan to full attack all four targets, at normal to hit (he is moving very fast to make all those attacks, giving a penalty canceled by his power in his fury). keep the -1d6 to precise strike damage, maybe even make it half normal precise strike damage.

7. spear throwing. giving 100 foot throwing at first level is rather sudden, and again, the damage is rather large. instead, you could make it advance to a total of 5d4 or so at level 20, and increase the range increment by 10 or 15 feet every time the damage ups so you hit 100 or so feet at level 20. altenativly, combine the spear throwing ability with the precise strike feature, have the precise strike damage apply to both melee and ranged attacks, and increase the range increment each time as well. also, you could give the spartan the brutal throw feat at some level, which allows them to use STR for to hit with a throw weapon.

8. the shield wall doesnt make much sense. maybe re-do it as letting the spartan block one arrow each round, like the deflect arrows feat, and give an AC bonus to the spartan and allies around him, if he and the allies are using a shield, something like "if the spartan is adjacent to an ally, and both are using a shield, they both improve their shield bonus to AC by 1 (+2 at 12th, +3 at 20th level)."

in short, the bonus damage seems a bit high, some of the features dont seem to make perfect sense withing 3.5 rules, and some of the class features would be better if they incremented instead of being given and left alone. by toning the damage back, and incrementing other class features, you could balance damage with utility and become more balanced. also, you need to have the quote "THIS! IS! SPARTA!" somewhere. just because. hope this helps a bit. sorry if i seemed overbearing, and i appologize for the lack of capitalization.Zau 21:19, 9 October 2011 (MDT)

also, unrelated to previous, you should probably use the "show preview" button, and edit the whole page at once, instead of editing each part seperatly. you have a whole bunch of closely spaced edits, that could have all been done at once. dont worry about it, i did it too when i first started editing wikis. Zau 21:30, 9 October 2011 (MDT)

Rating

Power - 2/5 I give this class a 2 out of 5 because It is way, way too powerfull. It gets full BAB, 2 good saves, 6 + int skill points, d10 HP, all martial weapons and medium armor. With pretty much no drawbacks. In addition you give it a HUGE basic damage bonus. Compared to paladin/monk/[random ToB class] it is able to deal out way too much damage to be challenging to play. Reduce the damage or do it /per day, otherwise it's a game breaker.--Grozomah (talk) 12:38, 29 December 2012 (MST)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because it reads well. I chuckled at charging rampage slow-mo. --Grozomah (talk) 12:38, 29 December 2012 (MST)

Formatting - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because not all abilites are described. I'm also missing hyperlinks to abilities when they first appear in the chart.--Grozomah (talk) 12:38, 29 December 2012 (MST)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it's awesome. Maybe a bit to based on the movie but what the hell, the movie was awesome too.--Grozomah (talk) 12:38, 29 December 2012 (MST)

Paladin and Monk are terribly underpowered, so comparing them to paladins and monks isn't fair. Plus, they aren't as gamebreaking as a Wizard, Cleric, Druid or Sorcerer.

Martial classes should be compared to martial classes, regardless of how the power tiers are structured. Otherwise every power comparison breaks down to "Wizzzards[sic] can rewrite reality and do anything, so dealing 100d20 damage every attack while TWF'ing with a 10-20 crit isn't OP at all!" Zau (talk) 12:55, 6 May 2013 (MDT)

Rating

Power - 1/5 I give this class a 1 out of 5 because its special abilities are significantly over powered for the levels. --172.221.7.45 06:55, 6 May 2013 (MDT)

Wording - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because it is a well designed and thought out class, but the wording orients the class to being even more over powered. Yes, Spartans should be good, but they shouldn't be invincible. --172.221.7.45 06:55, 6 May 2013 (MDT)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it follows the format well. --172.221.7.45 06:55, 6 May 2013 (MDT)

Flavor - 2/5 I give this class a 2 out of 5 because again the special abilities add too much power way too early on. +1d6 with every spear attack? +1d4 with spear throw out to 100 feet? Ridiculous... --172.221.7.45 06:55, 6 May 2013 (MDT)

Balance

I put this into the Class Construction Engine to see how it compares to the other classes. The class construction engine, for those of you unawares, uses class points to purchase features, stats, and other things. The normal base classes each cost about 250 points. This cost about 495. I've been balancing it out, making it a melee heavy hitter, and I've gotten it down to three basic features: sneak attack (+Xd6), extra charge damage (+Xd6), and a power attack (X/day). This all can stack. The Spartan also gets a feat every other level, as well as an AC bonus based around their signature shield (that can never be replaced short of wish or restarting your levels in the class with a new shield). I've also, in order to stick to the "cinematic awesomeness" the original owner was trying to convey, been making it so every class is fought like it's their last. The Spartan has no good saves, full BAB, and a d8 HD. Honestly, if you wanted a tankier heavy hitter, you should just play a barbarian. I'm trying to think of any other things that would make it cool. Let me know how it is.