Talk:Soul Timers (3.5e Equipment)

Feel free to help out wih the game mechanics by saying it here. --Jason Bagby 19:24, 12 July 2009

Not sure where you're going with this. Can you tell us what the purpose is to be? Is this a plot McGuffian? -- Eiji 19:50, 12 July 2009 (MDT)

Huh? What's a plot McGuffian? --Jason Bagby 19:57, 12 July 2009

You need to stop relying on other people to fix your shit. The few times someone has gone and helped you, all you have done is copy their shit verbatim. Get your shit together and then post it. -- Jota 20:17, 12 July 2009 (MDT)

What the hell are you talking about? All my stuff are my own ideas are always my original ideas and I don't copy anyones shit. All I want is maybe a little help here and there in the form of comments including little tid bits of friendly advice. --Jason Bagby 18:39, 24 July 2009

This is directly stolen from Discworld. Originality, eh? --TK-Squared 18:49, 24 July 2009 (MDT)

Huh? Discworld never heard of it --Jason Bagby 20:32, 24 July 2009

He's saying so far you post a broken concept and pretty much ask everyone else to fix it, without... well, fixing it yourself, or trying to work it out before you post it. Anyway, to answer the question above, a plot McGuffian is a item, useless game-wise, which is nonetheless important to the plot. Take the Dragonballs. The whole plot tends to revolve around "let's get the dragonballs" but the actual dragonballs usually aren't useful beyond a single episode where they might do something and fly away. They're basically items there whose sole purpose is to drive the plot.

Anyway my comparison is the item is not terribly useful in game. So everyone has a clock, even a god. And? Can it be used in battle? Social situations? Something else? It's only purpose seems to be to be used for a plot "find the soul timer for Evil Bob" so you can drive the plot of Kill Evil Bob. It's not something someone can go "you know what, I really would like to augment my character with the Sword of Burning Blaze and a Decanter of Pepsi."

In short, it doesn't even have mechanics. No bonuses, no rolling dice. It's all fluff and no crunch. So, "what's the point?". -- Eiji 18:55, 24 July 2009 (MDT)

Sure you could use it in battle to like make a reroll, confuse an enemy etc.. the possibilities are endless. --Jason Bagby 20:37, 24 July 2009

How? It doesn't say? Do I roll a dice? Is it a standard action to activate? Provoke AoOs? Do I have to hold it? Do I need it in my possession for 24 hours? What's the range? Is there a saving throw? Do i have to make a touch attack? Who can use it? Do I need to be a caster? Are there buttons? How does it reroll? How does it confuse? Who is immune? Can it do anything? Can I shake it like an Etch-a-Sketch and erase the universe? Can it make me tea? Can I have it delete itself? Please, just some mechanics, there is, literally, beyond nothing. -- Eiji 20:46, 24 July 2009 (MDT)

(Resets the indent) Ah, some changes. Let's see.... The use of these items require a standard action to activate and you have to hold it. The range is 100ft. the saving throw to resist any of its affects is a (DC:40). You do not need to be a caster to cast the spells affiliated with one of these artifacts. Ok, let's work with this and see what's missing. It looks like you looked over my list of examples and answered a few word for word which is... kinda good. Anyway.

"Anyone can use this. When using this item you must hold it in one hand. With a standard action you can target A DOUBLEDOHICKEY number of targets in 100 ft. They must make a BANANA saving throw DC 40. On a successful save, the target BECOMES ROBOT BUTTERFLY. On a failed saving throw, TUNA IN YOUR BUTT."

The nonsense in CAPS? That's vital information everyone needs to know that is currently missing? Perhaps you can use this as sort of a template (in fact, I entirely suggest that for EVERY one of your creations you are basing the formatting and wording off something else). When you make these pages, don't just start writing, say, "I'm going to make this. I'm going to make this prestige class which is like if you took a bard and made him into a guy who dances with zombies. Or I am going to make this item which let's you take Time Stop, and mixes it with a Well of many Worlds." Something like this.

Then you go find what you need (this is an artifact, I should find an artifact. My artifact has spell-like abilities. Maybe I can start with Staff of the Magi and go from there.) Work it up a bit. You look at the staff and you see "Hey, I need saving throws, I need to list what powers you get, I need to put the list in a table instead of in a jumbled blob". Heck, you'd even have the table pre-made for you perhaps. Copying and pasting is a good thing, and it will turn your current things from "guy is just writing nonsense, no idea" to "hey this sounds almost professional, like it can go in a book". And if you really have trouble remembering what needs to be put to have a workable item, this will help you remember it.

So. Start doing that, starting with making sure you have ALL your mechanics before you start adding fluff. Make sure that is right, and it doesn't matter if you're the worst storyteller in the world and you type in engrish. People will be able to fix typos, not really so mechanics, or a lack of them. Start with figuring out the missing information from above, and take it to heart. -- Eiji 21:39, 24 July 2009 (MDT)

Thanks as i've said before your a lifesaver. --Jason Bagby 17:53, 25 July 2009

Is this any better? --Jason Bagby 23:43, 26 July 2009

Not really. You don't explain what it does mechanically. --Ghostwheel 23:56, 26 July 2009 (MDT)

What does mechanically even mean?

Mechanics

1. (used with a singular verb) the branch of physics that deals with the action of forces on bodies and with motion, comprised of kinetics, statics, and kinematics.

2. (used with a singular verb) the theoretical and practical application of this science to machinery, mechanical appliances, etc.

3. (usually used with a plural verb) the technical aspect or working part; mechanism; structure.

4. (usually used with a plural verb) routine or basic methods, procedures, techniques, or details: the mechanics of running an office; the mechanics of baseball.

Mechanically

1. having to do with machinery: a mechanical failure.

2. being a machine; operated by machinery: a mechanical toy.

3. caused by or derived from machinery: mechanical propulsion.

4. using machine parts only.

5. brought about by friction, abrasion, etc.: a mechanical bond between stones; mechanical erosion.

6. pertaining to the design, use, understanding, etc., of tools and machinery: the mechanical trades; mechanical ability.

7. acting or performed without spontaneity, spirit, individuality, etc.: a mechanical performance.

8. habitual; routine; automatic: Practice that step until it becomes mechanical.

9. belonging or pertaining to the subject matter of mechanics.

10. pertaining to, or controlled or effected by, physical forces.

11. (of a philosopher or philosophical theory) explaining phenomena as due to mechanical action or the material forces of the universe.

12. subordinating the spiritual to the material; materialistic.

I think the Activation and Use Paragraph explains the mechanics quite well. --Jason Bagby 12:51, 29 July 2009 (MDT)

Number three of mechanics. That one is probably the best fit. And so, mechanics, as in WHAT FREAKING SPELLS DOES IT CAST!? Don't say 'spells that deal with time.' That's a cop-out. Give us a list. Properly formatted, not like your shards. -- Jota 14:42, 29 July 2009 (MDT)

As an aside, that's pretty close. In gaming terms, "mechanically" or "crunch" is the nitty-gritty rules that things follow. For example, Disintegrate's mechanics are, "Make a Ranged Touch Attack. On a hit, target makes a Fort saving throw. On a success, this happens. On a fail, that happens." From there you can change the "flavor", or "fluff" as you want.

Flavor is what happens in-game that is mutable and doesn't really affect the rules. So you could make it that you bring your hands to your temples and a white spiralling beam shoots out at the target (sounds psionic, huh?) or that you open your mouth and a red Cero-like blast shoots out from there (Bleach) or that you place your open hand out, charging an attack and releasing it at your target (DBZ) or that you murmur a long incantation before a portal opens to some evil-bad plane, and pure planar essence shoots at the creature (diabolist flavor, maybe). As you can see, the flavor of each is different, but flavor is completely mutable and allows you to make a character from somewhere without actually altering the mechanics or creating a new class.

However, Jota's completely right; you say it targets 3 things (creatures?) up to 100' away with a DC 40 Fort save. But what does the effect do? You never actually explain what it does at all. --Ghostwheel 20:45, 29 July 2009 (MDT)

Obviously, they BECOME ROBOT BUTTERFLY. Of course the paladins usually make the save and get TUNA IN THEIR BUTTS. -- Eiji 21:27, 29 July 2009 (MDT)

Oooh, can I BECOME ROBOT BUTTERFLY too? Much better than getting TUNA IN THEIR (my?) BUTT ;-) --Ghostwheel 21:31, 29 July 2009 (MDT)