Talk:Soul Reaper, 2nd Variant (5e Class)

Issues

This page has quite a few the issues. As the edits themselves wouldn't fit in an edit description, I figured I would go into more detail here:

Soul Path Changes

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If you mastered one you may start the other path if completed either one.Once mastered both Kido Expert and ZanJutsu expert you may enter what is known as True Shikai Form,This form was only achievable for Ichigo and Aizen,(Scroll Down too see True Shikai Form).

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How does one "master" a subclass? By the time a player reaches 20th level, they typically can't level further and can only have features from 1 subclass, so how are we "mastering" two? Why is this detailed under Soul Path instead of in True Shikai's? Listing what specific characters have a certain ability instead of giving context of what said scene was supposed to convey for people who just want to play the class isn't great either. Something like "This form was only achievable by the two strongest Soul Reapers in history" would work better. You can also use {{inpage|True Shikai}} to link to it instead of "Scroll Down to see".

Hoho Changes

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Also due too your high soul pressure any room you enter you may choose a target too take 2 psychic damage, if the user does not choose a target the entire room takes 2 damage, At the 5th level once you hit below zero you experience something called True Form though it is unknown, this lasts for 20 min and will only happen if the DM approves when the time is right. If the DM approves then after the 20 min you are knocked out.(Look at Level 20 TRUE FORM FOR ABILITIES AND MORE)

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How are we defining a "room"? If you are outside, does every creature on the plane automatically take damage? If this damage is dealt automatically regardless of level, wouldn't Soul Society be constantly nuking itself? Is this at the end of each of your turns, or just constant, infinite stacks of 2 damage? Spiritual Pressure as a whole would probably work better as a variant rule, since it's not like Soul Reapers who know Hoho are the only ones who have it. This class doesn't get subclass features at 5th level. "Once you hit below zero" should be reworded to the 5e standard "when you drop to 0 hit points". True FORM doesn't imply any thing about regaining his points, so does your unconscious body gain all these benefits? "DM decides if you get this" features aren't a thing in 5e, and end up feeling like a lazy excuse to not expound on conditions needed to gain the benefits of a feature.

Introducing True FORM

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At level 20 you are the greatest Soul Reapers too wield a Zanpakuto, for 20 Reishi 20 points you may enter True form (Discuss with your DM).In this form your Soul pressure is so immense so anyone with the intent too kill you takes 1d6 of psychic damage . In this form you are very powerful and faster than the speed of light, making your movement speed 250 while in this form and all attacks with a +20, and Dice rolls receive a +10 (not including damage). All attacks towards you are rolled with disadvantage due too your high Soul Pressure and you may add +5 too you AC. This form Lasts 1 hour but once the hour is up the user becomes very exhausted and must roll disadvantage on all rolls until 1 long rest. (includes 3 bonus actions and 3 turns)

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This class does not get subclass features at "level 20" (should be 20th level). What kind of action is used to activate this feature, or is it at will? What are we discussing with our DM? "Anyone with the intent too kill you" should be replaced with the 5e standard "hostile creatures". If my movement speed was 260, does it decrease? A flat doubling of movement speed would probably work better. "All attacks with a +20" should probably be replaced with the 5e standard "you gain a +20 bonus to your attack rolls", but it's so vague that I'm not sure that's what you mean. "Dice rolls receive a +10" should probably be replaced with "you gain a +10 bonus to any ability checks and saving throws you make", but again, far too vague and non-5e to be able to know that's what you mean. "You may add +5 too you AC" should be replaced with the 5e standard "you gain a +5 bonus to your AC". All of these bonuses, especially put together, are so insanely more powerful than anything in 5e. "This form Lasts 1 hour but once the hour is up the user becomes very exhausted and must roll disadvantage on all rolls until 1 long rest" should be entirely rewritten to "This form lasts for 1 hour. At the end of this feature's duration, the user is overcome with a wave of exhaustion and must make any d20 roll with disadvantage until the end of their next long rest". "(includes 3 bonus actions and 3 turns)" is just left floating with no indication to what it relates to in any way.

True Shikai Form vs Final Bankai

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True Shikai form,Once you have Mastered Kido Expert and Zanjustu Expert you are the Greatest Soul Warrior too Touch the other side, your known throughout hell and heaven and any soul you interact with volunteers too help you in any way. Too start with your base stats, your movement speed becomes a 150 if the user has additional boost for movement speed it may be applied,Your hit Dice becomes a 1d20, you are able too add +10 too your AC though it cannot Pass 35,Your Zanpakuto does +15 bonus damage,Your soul pressure is too immense that you can contain and take 5 psychic damage or release it on someone or an entire room and deal 10 psychic damage, doing this will make people fall and will have trouble breathing.Now time for True Shikai form, too start off with True Shikai Form your movement speed is infinite you are beyond light speed and is faster than sound itself, (Your AC must stay under 45) you may add +15 too your AC, All Dice rolls receive a +15, Every person that attacks you must roll 3x disadvantage and Take -10 on all attacks or spells, whoever has the intent too kill must now take a 1d10 psychic damage, your Zanpakuto is your choice too form (Discuss with DM too shape your Blade),On all attacks you may roll a saving throw depending on the attack and will take half damage if under a 15 and no damage if over 15, If anyone is standing 10 feet o you, you may shield with your Soul pressure and can only be destroyed if hit 10 times.Now too enter this form you must spend all your reishi points and you may last in this form until deactivation once deactivating you are left with 1 Hit point.(includes 5 bonus actions and 4 turns).

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First and foremost, Final Bankai was meant to simulate the Final Getsuga Tensho, so replacing it with this is questionable. The "True Shikai form," at the beginning implies that the first half is the effects of activating True Shikai, but that's clearly not the cast. The hoops to jump through make the movement speed increase (which should probably just be a simple +100 ft. bonus to your movement speed) and hit die increase reasonable, and the AC maximum is fine. "Your Zanpakuto does +15 bonus damage" should be replaced with the 5e standard "you gain a +15 bonus to attack rolls with your Zanpakuto". Soul Pressure has the same issues stated under Hoho Changes. Is "making people fall" supposed to be knocking them prone? "Now time for True Shikai form" is too casual compared to the tone of the rest of the page, and should be the start a new paragraph instead of one massive block of text. An infinite movement speed is... certainly something (see General/Other Issues. See Introducing True FORM for problems with bonuses and "intent to kill". 5e doesn't have stacking disadvantage, which I assume "3x disadvantage" is in reference to; you either have disadvantage or you don't. I assume "Take -10 on all attacks or spells" should be "have a -10 penalty to all attack and damage rolls". "Your Zanpakuto is your choice too form (Discuss with DM too shape your Blade)" is vague, with Shikai and Bankai at least having examples.

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On all attacks you may roll a saving throw depending on the attack and will take half damage if under a 15 and no damage if over 15" has a whole slew of problems. How is what ability this saving throw uses decided? If two characters in True Shikai attack each other with their godlike power, but both succeed a saving throw a 1st level character could pass with little difficulty, they just take no damage? "If over/if under" should be replaced with the 5e standard "On a success/on a failure", with the fact that the saving throw is DC 15 being stated when it tells you you're making a saving throw like every other DC in 5e.

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What kind of action does creating a shield with your Soul Pressure require? What are the benefits of this? If your Soul Pressure shield is hit by another True Shikai creature, or a similarly thematic powerup from another class, is it really as effective as a literal housecat hitting it (in other words, shouldn't the shield just have hit points)? "Now too enter this form" too casual. "you must spend all your reishi points" that I have at that time, or my maximum? "you may last in this form until deactivation once deactivating you are left with 1 Hit point" then why would I ever deactivate it? "(includes 5 bonus actions and 4 turns)" still doesn't mean anything.

General/Other Issues

First and foremost, there are quite a few grammatical errors throughout these recent edits. Please just give your edits a second readthrough and you'll probably catch them.

"Shikai & Bankai Examples" actually describes what the list is in relation to at a glance, while "Zanpakuto spells" does not (and might even imply it's related to the other subclass).

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WE WANT TOO START OFF BY THANKING YOU AND CLICKING THE LINK TOO COME TOO THE NEW IMPROVED SOUL REAPER! CLASS. THE PREVIOUS ONE HAD TOO MANY PEOPLE EDITING IT AND IT TAKES A LOT OF TIME CHANGING THINGS BACK TOO NORMAL SOO PLEASE IF YOU CAN YOU COPY AND PASTE THIS CLASS SHEET PLEASE DUE SOO BECAUSE MAKING THESE CLASSES TAKE SUPER LONG AND I WOULD HATE FOR PPL NOT GET AN OFFICIAL SOUL REAPER CLASS, FOR I AM A FAN OF BLEACH AND SOO ARE OTHERS. THANK YOU! NOT ONLY ARE WE TRYING TOO FIX MANY EDITS BUT I WANTED A FRESH CLASS FOR NEW PEOPLE AND AS BLEACH IS MAKING A RETURN! I DECIDED TOO UPDATE IT. I HOPE EVERYONE ENJOYS THIS CLASS AND REMEMBER COPY AND PASTE THIS ANY WHERE YOU CAN JUST IN CASE!

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It was not a matter of "too many people" editing Soul Reaper (5e Class), it was these edits having the above issues. This paragraph as a whole is the kind of thing that might fly on a talk page, but isn't necessary to be on-page itself. Neither this, nor the class this is a variant of, are official.

Every class is made for fun, the problem is that one class being stronger than every other class isn't fun for everyone else, and the purpose of this wiki is to create usable content. On top of that, you didn't make this class, it's not anybody's! The class is based off of was started in 2017, at least 20 editors have contributed to it. As the editing window says, "if you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then do not submit it here".

When it comes to adapting content, anything introduced should carry the spirit of the work, but not necessarily the exact abilities because they still need to be playable alongside 5e's base classes (for example, of all 12 Dragon Ball classes, not a single one has a x50 multiplier). Many portions of this class are unbalanced or unclearly worded. So long as these issues persist on this wiki outside of your user space, it will continue to be edited.--Ref3rence (talk) 10:56, 5 August 2022 (MDT)