Talk:Self-Propulsion (3.5e Feat)

Balance?

A fly ability at 3rd level is abusive. The skill bonuses are completely out-of-line. --Dmilewski 11:00, 19 July 2007 (MDT)

You're right. The whole "The Gift" Feat line is way out of proportion. It would be okay if the feats were somehow limited by number of uses per day or something similar. They way the feat is now, it's an Epic Feat if anything. --Mkill 22:38, 19 July 2007 (MDT)

It isn't a "fly ability", it's the ability to move forwards if you're already levitating. To fly, you'd need 5 feats (The Gift, Psychokinesis, Controlled Fall, Levitate, Self-Propulsion). That's a pretty hefty investment! Also, some LA+3 races can fly (and have many other abilities besides), and Warlocks can fly at will quite soon (again, with numerous other abilities). The large skill bonuses are because you're almost flying: actual flight would negate the need for most of those skill-checks anyhow. What I had in mind was the sort of stunts that Luke Skywalker and other Jedi could do in the Star Wars movies: not quite full flight, but close to it, and obviously supernatural. Also (for a more fantasy-oriented example) "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon". Findail 06:21, 20 July 2007 (MDT)

Mhh. Okay, let me take a second look. First of all, you didn't include all prerequisites into the prerequisites paragraph. Note that it is normally cascading, i.e. it includes feats that are prerequisite for the prerequisites, too, see Whirlwind Attack for an example.

And then still, you can get this feat at 3rd level as a human. And at that time, getting an unnamed (!) +10 bonus to 5 different skills is way too much. We're not talking about real flying here, we're talking about what just this feat does without the help of the others. For example, Tumble +10 let's pretty much anyone move across the battlefield without provoking AOOs.

Just the base movement increase +10 ft. is worth 2 feats. Also, with +10 ft. move and Jump +10 you get a +14 bonus to Jump checks.

The only feat that comes somewhat close to it is "Daring Acrobate" (or so) in Complete Scoundrel, and even that one only gives +5 to a similar selection of feats, but only 3 times per day.

Finally, yes, some classes get flying, and that's better because you don't need to Jump or Balance anymore, but first that a class or race ability, not a feat, and second, you still provoke AOOs when you fly through someone's reach. --Mkill 07:15, 20 July 2007 (MDT)

In general, I like The Gift line. Many of them are terrific in terms of game play. A few are in left field. This is one of those. +10 UNNAMED is an astounding bonus for one skill for one feat, let alone six skills. Let's base this on Barbarian and Monk: Your land speed is faster than the norm for your race by +10 feet. This benefit applies only when you are wearing no armor or light armor, and not carrying a medium or heavy load. Apply this bonus before modifying your speed because of any load carried or armor worn. Your swim speed is +5 feet greater and flying speed is +10 feet greater. Your flying bonus allows you to move horizontally while under a levitation spell or ability.--Dmilewski 07:43, 20 July 2007 (MDT)

...Looks good. And limiting horizontal movement to 10 feet when levitating will provide an incentive to stay on the ground most of the time. As for the skill bonuses: I'll reduce those to +5 in most cases, but keep +10 for Jump. Large bonuses on Jump are easy to obtain anyhow, and this is the skill which should benefit most from added propulsion. Findail 06:06, 23 July 2007 (MDT)