Talk:Scissor Sword (5e Equipment)
Jump to navigation
Jump to search
This is interesting, but I'd like some clarification on the special. Is the intent that you can use it to make a bonus attack as though you were two weapon fighting? They're light, so you can also wield one in each hand, I'm unclear how this interacts with two weapon fighting. Thanks Marasmusine (talk) 06:21, 9 May 2015 (MDT)
- I did leave some invisible text on the page about that. I don't see any mechanical problems with two-weapon fighting with other weapons and this, but conceptually it's ridiculous. (And with an already ludicrous appearance, that's no good) I'm making it 2-handed. That should resolve any confusion as to what weapon you should use for the bonus attack. Kydo (talk) 09:30, 9 May 2015 (MDT)
Yeah... I'm going to have to ask which property it NEEDS to have. A weapon can and should not be light and heavy. Also, if the blades work like scissors, how do you get a bonus attack? Wouldn't it be more like a single, more powerful attack? St. Noof 14:01 13 May 2015 (EDT)
- I think that now it's two-handed there's no need for the light tag (since you can't wield it in your off-hand alone) but I'll leave it for Kydo since, I dunno, it sounds like the kind of thing he might try and justify :) Marasmusine (talk) 14:17, 13 May 2015 (MDT)
- Heh, all right. I figure it should be "Heavy, two-handed, versatile". Have the weapon be heavy and do like 1d8 slashing, but if you're using it like scissors instead of a sword, it can do 2d6. St. Noof 17:27 13 May 2015 (EDT)
- The scissor shape was not the intent. The idea was for a weapon that uses both light and heavy tags at the same time. That is the point. By removing either one of those, you might as well delete this page. Everything else is a contrivance around that. If you have a better design that would be too difficult for short people to use and can be used for a bonus attack using the 2WF rules, I'd like to hear it. Especially if it lets me drop the two-handed tag. My original intent there was to allow the example to be self-contained in a single item, despite the 2WF rules being about, well, more than one weapon. Kydo (talk) 13:26, 14 May 2015 (MDT)
- And, on a tangent, just why the hell not? There is no correlation between weapon weight and the light or heavy tags. Light is a trigger for 2WF rules and nothing more. Heavy only affects short people. There is no mechanical conflict. No rule states they cannot be on an item at the same time. If the tags were named something else, like "dual-wield-able" and "long" nobody would bat an eyelash. Kydo (talk) 13:38, 14 May 2015 (MDT)
- The light tag qualifies you for 2WF if you're holding the weapon in one hand. At the moment the scissor sword is a two-handed weapon. Marasmusine (talk) 13:56, 14 May 2015 (MDT)
- It... it's still light and heavy... May I edit it so that I can show you all my idea for how it would work? St. Noof 21:12 13 May 2015 (EDT)
- It is supposed to be Light and Heavy. You are not understanding. This is not a scissor sword. It is an arbitrary mechanical construct. It is an example of a disconnect between rules and representation in the game, which coincidentally turns out to be rather fun and funny. You may edit any part of it to justify the Light+Heavy tags, but please don't change them. Rewrite the fluff, change the page name, add other tags or special functions, have a blast, just please don't change the premise of the weapon. Or I'll just go make a new one. XD Kydo (talk) 21:15, 14 May 2015 (MDT)
I want to think about other descriptions for this concept, so I am noting down exactly what the requirement is for these tags.
- You can wield one in each hand for two-weapon fighting.
- Small creatures have disadvantage using it.
I'm not sure how the scissor sword description fits with this. Maybe it could be something in which the length is critical, like some kind of pole you stick in the ground and you do something with the tip, and they are used as a pair. Marasmusine (talk) 04:44, 21 November 2015 (MST)
- sorry for the late reply. Have at it! I'm not happy with what I came up with, and I haven't thought up anything better yet! --Kydo (talk) 00:47, 17 December 2015 (MST)
Please, someone, take a look at what I've done to try and fix it. Should be interesting to use, fun to play, and its properties are very clearly defined. I won't take down the proposed deletion template, because I don't want to just say "It's fixed!" and be an egomaniac like that, but my girlfriend and I worked pretty hard on making it work. --St. Noof (talk) 20:40, 26 February 2016 (EST)
- Well, the original point was to have a weapon with both the Heavy and Light property. The name and description was incidental. I guess this is okay, but I'm not sure if anyone would use this. A Strength fighter isn't going to want a set of shortswords, and a monk or two-weapon fighter isn't going to want the scissor combination. Marasmusine (talk) 05:55, 27 February 2016 (MST)
- I know a Strength fighter who dual-wields shortswords. It's nice to have the extra modifier, if you can hack it; it's a good alternative to the potential of rolling double 1s with Great Weapon Fighting. If the weapon is martial, a monk's not going to have access to it, anyway, right? Sure, a barbarian's got no real reason to pick it up over a greatsword, but there are tons of quirky weapons like that. Morningstar is one of the unsung heroes of the quirky weapons, for example. However, my pitch will only go so far. I've had problems before with not being able to help developers realize their creative visions. If you think it's a keeper, I'm glad, but at the end of the day, I made a weapon that I like, and will be available in my campaigns, and I'm going to have to be satisfied with that instead. --St. Noof (talk) 10:06, 27 February 2016 (EST)
- Monks are proficient with shortswords, so a single weapon that can be two shortswords is of interest. Actually, what happens if a ~1 magic scissor sword is found? Does it become two +1 shortswords? Marasmusine (talk) 08:26, 27 February 2016 (MST)
- Well, it does what a scissor sword should do. I like the weapon. I'm disappointed that nobody, not even me, can imagine a weapon which could carry both the heavy and light tags for non-mechanical reasons, but at least someone made something fun out of this experiment. --Kydo (talk) 01:18, 29 February 2016 (MST)
- I would think it'd become two +1s, yes. As for the light and heavy thing, it just doesn't work to try and add both tags. Granted, heavy weapons do not always have a high weight, but the two are antithetical of one another. The tags are meant to have mechanical implications. My best solution was to find the closest way to emulate everything that the weapon was intended to do and use the "special" tag to denote it. Kydo, I'm glad you like it. I'd appreciate it if you took a look at my custom class, the demolitionist, and tell me what you think. --St. Noof (talk) 8:51 29 February 2016 (EST)
- I don't think they're antithetical though. That was the point I was trying to make. The two mechanics are functionally compatible. Imagine the trait names were "Weapon Trait A" and "Weapon Trait B". I just can't find a justifiable example to put them together. Yeah, I can take a look. Not much time for actual playing at the moment, so I wont be able to give it a playtest or anything. --Kydo (talk) 05:40, 1 March 2016 (MST)
- I would think it'd become two +1s, yes. As for the light and heavy thing, it just doesn't work to try and add both tags. Granted, heavy weapons do not always have a high weight, but the two are antithetical of one another. The tags are meant to have mechanical implications. My best solution was to find the closest way to emulate everything that the weapon was intended to do and use the "special" tag to denote it. Kydo, I'm glad you like it. I'd appreciate it if you took a look at my custom class, the demolitionist, and tell me what you think. --St. Noof (talk) 8:51 29 February 2016 (EST)
- Well, it does what a scissor sword should do. I like the weapon. I'm disappointed that nobody, not even me, can imagine a weapon which could carry both the heavy and light tags for non-mechanical reasons, but at least someone made something fun out of this experiment. --Kydo (talk) 01:18, 29 February 2016 (MST)
- Monks are proficient with shortswords, so a single weapon that can be two shortswords is of interest. Actually, what happens if a ~1 magic scissor sword is found? Does it become two +1 shortswords? Marasmusine (talk) 08:26, 27 February 2016 (MST)
- I know a Strength fighter who dual-wields shortswords. It's nice to have the extra modifier, if you can hack it; it's a good alternative to the potential of rolling double 1s with Great Weapon Fighting. If the weapon is martial, a monk's not going to have access to it, anyway, right? Sure, a barbarian's got no real reason to pick it up over a greatsword, but there are tons of quirky weapons like that. Morningstar is one of the unsung heroes of the quirky weapons, for example. However, my pitch will only go so far. I've had problems before with not being able to help developers realize their creative visions. If you think it's a keeper, I'm glad, but at the end of the day, I made a weapon that I like, and will be available in my campaigns, and I'm going to have to be satisfied with that instead. --St. Noof (talk) 10:06, 27 February 2016 (EST)
- (Kinda did this the long-winded way around, sorry; it's late.)
- Intuitively, a light weapon has little enough weight that a small or medium creature can dual-wield it with no problem, while a heavy weapon has enough weight that a small creature can't wield it to much effect at all; in the middle are weapons that are between the two extremes, such as longswords and other weapons that are too heavy to dual-wield without special training and that don't require both hands (which all heavy weapons do). In that vein of thought, the two tags are mutually exclusive for logical reasons, and that limiter also imposes a soft cap on how much damage you can dual-wield.
- That said... A weapon might gain the heavy tag by being unreasonably cumbersome for small creatures without that difficulty necessarily coming from its weight. Being as small creatures are short, it just has to be too long for them and yet light enough for medium creatures. The picture that thusly arises involves two quarterstaff-length blades, with hafts that leave only room enough for one hand...
- ...Basically a kind of straightened-out bat'leth, or a double sword with shortened hafts and blades going back past one's shoulders and down to one's feet. ...A dual-wield-able bat'leth. Gods help us. Knowlessman (talk) 03:58, 27 March 2017 (UTC)