Talk:Satan Spawn (5e Class)

Hey I'm about to do a campaign and would really like to use this class but I have a few questions and/or suggestions. How is the spells known worked? I see on the page you have your own spell list but not how many you learn or if its prepared spells. Also question as to why you limit the class to only learning new spells if its related to manipulating fire? Wouldn't it be better suited to only learning attack spells that way and learning any spell you have spell slots for after studying it. --Energon97 (talk) 22:15, 13th March 2017 (EST)Energon97

Yo! Glad you liked the idea, I recently finished watching the show and felt creative. The whole concept of Rin just seemed like a cool idea to have in D&D, thought I've found myself to be rather busy the last week or so since I created it. All help is welcome though, I do plan to continue progress this coming week. Feel free to add though, I was thinking of ways to word level 1's demon sword but you pretty much nailed exactly what I was thinking. Good job! But yeah all is good and I'll be adding to it soon too. From the creator of said class! --DinistrioEX (talk) 23:34, 28 January 2017 (MST)DinistrioEX

To whoever initially made this class, just wanna say- awesome idea. I have seen the show and ever since I first noticed this on here, I've wanted to use it in a campaign. I got a little sick of waiting, so I thought I'd help out a bit. Feel free to change anything I've put. --Jdantastic (talk) 16:24, 28 January 2017 (MST)Jdantastic

Progress Update 2

Good work so far, I added a few class features for levels 11 and 14 (Though I think Satan Bomb might need a little look over). I plan to be adding little snippets though the day. I'm not sure how to go about Archetypes or if the class would even need them. Looking over it right now, it seems strong without archetypes but when originally considering archetypes for the class I was thinking on two different types. One more Weapon based and the other more Spell based, but the way the class has taken shape so far. What do you think? Also I'd love to work more on this class with you, if you wanna talk about it better on say Discord or Skype I'd be happy to!

--DinistrioEX (talk) 10:41, 29 January 2017 (GMT)DinistrioEX

Progress Update 1

So I've got the abilities you get until 10th level done, as well as some spells. There are less fire spells out there then you'd think. I figured I'd leave the archetypes to you. I think I'm done for now- I'm running out of creative juices and I want this class to come out really well.

--Jdantastic (talk) 20:26, 28 January 2017 (MST)Jdantastic

About Archetypes and Whatnot

Well, we could give the class on the whole access to 5th level spells, and then give the more magic based archetype something similar to the Warlock's Mystic Arcanum. And maybe move Fighting Styles over to the more weapon based archetype. Or perhaps increase the number of Demonic Flame Points (make it like a Monk's Ki Points, where they have the same amount of points as their level number) and then let the more magic based archetype use Demonic Flame Points to cast higher level spells. I've been thinking about adding more Points anyway, as some of the features are taking a lot as is. And yeah, I'd be down with using Skype to work on this.

--Jdantastic (talk) 12:51, 29 January 2017 (MST)Jdantastic

Progress Update 3

So I changed the Demonic Flame Points to be more like a Monk's Ki points, and because of that, I had to up the damage on Satan Slash. After all, 10d6 (if they wanted to put all their points into a normal flame damage strike) would be more than Satan Slash. I also added the supreme ability you're supposed to get at 20th level. You can look it over, but I'd say it's pretty balanced. And I updated the spell list a little bit.

--Jdantastic (talk) 16:21, 30 January 2017 (MST)Jdantastic

Progress Update 4

So I'm back in action and just to note a few things that I've changed and have started to work on. First I've started the Archetypes as Blue Flame, Red Flame and a potential Green Flame all of which will be unique in their own rights. Blue Flame representing more strength and melee based combat, Red unlocking the spell table to a full one and allowing for more spells. I haven't decided on how I'd like to work with a defensive or supportive path just yet, maybe 2 paths is better? But that's been added, feel free to reword things since you seem a lot better then I at it. As for changes, I got some feedback about adding 'At [xx] level' before most features to make it easier for the reader, so I went and added that. I changed Strength of the Damned to the Blue Flame Archetype since it fitted it rather well and removed the Con Mod from the heal. A 1d4+con every turn seemed a bit strong, but keeping the 1 cost for 1d6+con is fine. Depending on the Archetype they choose will determine the colour of their flames. Now I'm home I'll be working on this a lot more, if you'd like to add me on Skype then my skype mj.griffiths232 .

--DinistrioEX (talk) 20:01, 02 February 2017 (GMT)DinistrioEX

Progress Update 5

Alright, this change was a small one, but I figured since Blue will be more melee fighting that I should move fighting styles over there. They get two, which I personally feel is fair since they don't have access to it until 6th level, but you can change that if you want. Also, why not use the Sorcerer spell list instead? This class is all about your Demonic heritage giving you power, and Sorcerers get their power from a supernatural heritage. I dunno, just a suggestion. --Jdantastic (talk) 16:41, 4 February 2017 (MST)Jdantastic

Love the manga, and the class! Amazing work! Shikeshi (talk)

Feedback

• This is overpowered. The following are all contributing to this so one or more need reducing.
  • This class has two "common" saves (Con and Wis), where it's standard to have a common and uncommon.
  • Features on levels where you also gain a new spell slot level (sometimes this is unavoidable, such as extra attack at 5th level)
  • 1/2 spellcaster with d10 hit die and martial weapons
  • Features on levels where you also gain an ability score improvement
  • (There's a dead level at 15th, maybe move something there)
• Sometimes narrow in scope (communicating with demons doesn't help much until a campaign throws some your way, which might be never, and it's unclear how chatting to demons would help anyway) and a story-based prerequisite make this a candidate for a prestige class rather than a base class.
• Cantrips can already be cast at will
• You are considered proficient with a martial sword, but martial proficiency has already been stated.
• "Demon Weapon ever break, you will be left helpless. " - Helpless is a condition, are you sure this is what you mean? There are no rules for weapon breakages, so how would this occur? What is "sufficient skill"? Repairing, if treated like crafting, would require a gp value that determines the cost of components and how long it takes to repair.
• You would regain demon points when you finish a long rest, not "on" a long rest.
• The weapon is "a kind of focus". It's either a focus, or not. You have to be holding a focus to use it, so there's not need to specify "If sheathed..."
  • "not required to be in possession of the weapon to cast spells." seems contradictory with the rest of the paragraph.
  • It's not clear clear on what spells you know, how they are prepared, how spell slots work, or when they recharge.
• Unnatural reaction. Saving throw DC doesn't scale to an attack roll, it's off by a few points. Also, this kind of parry (c.f. with the monk's deflect arrows or the fighter's parry) is usually done with a damage reduction.
• I'm unclear what the point of demonic strikes is. Won't I be using my demonic weapon?
• Flame heart lets me add my spellcasting modifier to my produce flame cantrip's what?
• Will look at the rest another time. Marasmusine (talk) 07:35, 26 February 2017 (MST)

Can your Demon Weapon be a ranged weapon like a bow or crossbow? If yes, when would they be considered "sheated"?

* My guess bacused on the wording would be yes. It would be odd when looking at the show but as I stated above or would be possible. Sheated form would be undrawed while unsheathed would be drawn

More Feedback

It's been a few years, eh? Still lots of errors:

• "you can use your hellish power for a temporarily repair, or rest for permanent repair."
• Spells need wikilinks, especially the homebrew spells or we're not going to know what they are.
• No maximum limit on demonic flame (I can deal 17d10 at 17th level)
• "You also have advantage on any grapple checks and saves."
• Overreliance on a single type of damage.
• Improved Flame Damage. That 17th level alpha strike is now 17d10 + 85 damage
• Unnatural reaction. "targeted by a thrown weapon or missile attack" - that would be "the target of a ranged weapon attack". Why not use the normal mechanic for parrying?
• Demonic parry - Not sure why there is a saving throw. I'm already using up a resource to reduce the damage.
• Scare tactics, Demon knockdown - what are the saving throw DCs?
• Flame Heart- feats are optional, so what do we get if feats are not being used? If the following text is the feat, then you don't need to mention the feat at all.
• "You are considered proficient with the Athletics skill." should be "You gain proficiency in Athletics".
• "double your proficiency modifier" should be "you add twice your proficiency bonus (instead of your normal proficiency bonus)"
• Demonic recouperation. "Bonus action" should be mentioned at the start. What does the "halted" clause mean? The hit point recovery is instant. Has the potential total of 6d10 + 3*Con modifier hit point restoration between long rests been compared with similar hit point restoration techniques such as that of the fighter? This is one of the messier features.
• "you become proficient in Perception rolls." -> "You gain proficiency in Perception".
• etc, I'm only scratching the surface here. Marasmusine (talk) 14:17, 7 May 2019 (MDT)