Talk:Path of the Titanborn (5e Subclass)

Everyone is free to comment what you thought about the archetype and if you find any mistakes anywhere, i appreciate the feedback ^.^

"You can choose to add your Dexterity bonus modifier to your AC instead of your Dexterity bonus." what the actual fuck does this mean. --Blackbando (talk) 16:59, 16 September 2017 (MDT)

I meant "You can choose to add your Charisma bonus modifier to your AC instead of your Dexterity bonus.", but already fixed. In case of any other error or things badly stated in the file, please state it here and i really appreciate it! --Dhunter2 ^{You can add your signature with four tildes(~). Try it! :)}

Comments

Hello, fellow wikian! I feel great love in this page, I am deeply impressed! However, I would like to share some comments with you on this archetype, for the whole purpose of peer review:

• Runic Power. I kinda like this, because it gives versatility to barbarian, whose features are focused solely on combat, However, I am not quite sure with adding your Charisma modifier to the Runic Power maximum. This is because (a) while it was rather orthodox in older edition to give bonus to resources depending on your ability modifiers, it is somewhat dead in 5th edition, you can check with monk's ki maximum and sorcerer's sorcery point maximum for reference; and (b) in many cases, Charisma is considered as a dump stat for barbarian, so you can even have chance to have less Runic power maximum when you gain this feature. I suggest having fixed Runic Power maximum for each level, but let them regenerate on short rest or long rest for more frequent uses.

• Titan's Wrath. Hoo boy, the features are easily overpowered here and there:

AC Bonus. Giving bonus AC depending on your Charisma could be problematic, since it wires up the basic structure of the game. While the calculation itself is rather mediocre once you get used to it (although I'm quite sure some players would get annoyed at how your Dexterity is now slightly less important) but the problem can occur when you give full bonus to AC with medium armor. Long story short: It's overpowered, flat.

Quick reference: half plate, the strongest medium armor in SRD, grants you 15 base AC. When you have 20 (+5) Charisma, your AC is 20, which is even higher than wearing plate armor and you can still gain benefit from your rage. That's even eaiser than using barbarian's Unarmored Defense feature, which normally requires you to have 20 (+5) Dexterity and Constitution.

Enabling Spellcasting. You gain some beautiful bonus from your rage, which is already too much for a character to the point that the game explicitly bans you from casting spell while raging. If you gain all the benefit from your rage and can cast spells while you're at it, you are one gigantic, overpowered character that nothing could dare stand in your way. I can already see too many spellcaster-type characters multiclassing barbarian 3rd-level just for this feature. Imagine what kind of havoc an eldritch knight (now a fighter archetype) could do with this lovely bonus.

Oh, and this is just me being a smart-arse, but contrary to stereotype, you do not lose your reason when you rage, at least in gameplay-wise. You may be too overwhelmed by your rage to cast spells, but at least according to the rules, you can still keep your cool, speak, and even play a game of chess as long as your DM calls you out for playing out of character.

Suggestion. I am normally against rejecting others' work, because I acknowledge the love and effort they have in their works, just as I do in mine. However, this single feature is too overpowered that I, unfortunately, have to break my own rule for a moment. This is my most sincere recommendation, but barbarian is already powerful enough to have some bonus concering their Armor Class and rage. I suggest scratching out this entirely.

• Runic Arts. Ooh, I love this kind of features! However:

In General. You gain a specific runic art based on your level, right? Even when it is not normally the level you gain features from your archetype, right? While I love this kind of feature, I suggest maybe a bit of restructuring could make things a bit more interesting.

I suggest you may want to consult monk's Way of the Four Elements archetype, which grants some spell-like and not-exactly-spell-but-still-spell-like abilities. The basics are: You know two or three runic arts of your choice at 3rd level, and one more when you reach higher levels that grant you archetype features.

Oh, and since I already suggested scratching out the Titan's Wrath feature entirely, I think it is very good to notify that, while raging might keep you out of cating spells, it doesn't hinder you from using your runic arts.

Runic Blade. I'm not sure with "start dealing magical damage for resistances's effects" part, maybe you want something like Ki-Empowered Strikes feature? Then it should be: Your weapon attack counts as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.

I am somewhat against damage bonus because of simple reasons: Barbarians already have good, no, superb damage-boosting features.

Protection from Arrows. Ah, the old classics! It just bothers me, however, that nonmagical projectiles deals full damage while magical projectiles deals only half damage. Is this intentional?

Sagacious Reach. Interesting, but if all weapon attacks (which barbarians have two by 6th level) have their range extended by 15 feet, it could be a bit powerful.

Blessing of the Runes. I guess this is the wording problem, so it should be: When you are subjected to an effect that forces you to make a Dexterity or Constitution saving throw, you can spend 2 runic power points to automatically succeeds on the saving throw. If the effect deals half damage on a successful save, you instead take no damage. The problem is barbarian has superb hit points and Constitution saving throws, so I guess restricting it to using a reaction would keep things a bit milder.

Gale of Steel. I'm not sure if it's okay to use this feature with your opportuinity attacks. If this is intentional, then I am afraid I have to suggest that it would be much better to be kept in your turn only.

Seismic Charge. Very interesting, I think I like this feature in particular.

Firm Steps. Uh, there is no "free action" in 5th edition. (If something costs you no action, then it just does not use an action, instead of using "free action".) Maybe the timing should be "at the start of your turn" or something.

Overpower. I don't exactly see using an action to make a special attack, then make yet another attack on a succesful hit. Why not set it as: When you take the Attack action on your turn and succesfully hit a single creature with both attacks, you can spend 2 runic power points to push the creature back. If the creature is Large or smaller it is pushed by 15 feet, and 5 feet less for each size larger than Large.

Judgement of the Storm. So this is basically fireball but deals lightning damage against Constitution saving throw, right? I dunno, an area-of-effect feature could be too powerful in barbarian's hand, considering that barbarian is already one great killing machine even without magic. Oh, and no save DC mentioned, no duration of paralyzed condition mentioned.

• Eloquence of the Conquerer. Then again, 5th edition is rather reluctant in taking away what you already have, not to mention banning you from being proficient in a certain skill. Maybe just one skill proficiency and double proficiency bonus on that one would do enough.

• Giant Killer. I'm not exactly good when it comes to oversized weapon stuff, so I'll keep my words for now. But I would say that barbarian is already a melee bruiser with normal weapons.

• The Roots Run Deep. This is one interesting feature. I kinda like it.

Phew! That was long. In short: I love the features and all, but some featue may need some balancing works to follow up. Now, I'm not an admin, and even if I was, I don't have authority beyond suggesting my ideas. You can dismiss my ideas if you don't see it fit, but if you happen to find some things helpful, then it would be my greatest honor to be of help for you. Keep up with good works - you've got a fan here! :D --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 08:05, 17 September 2017 (MDT)

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Wow, loved the comment, thank you for the feedback! Well, let's give my thoughts!

• Runic Power: Well, i understand that enhancing the ammount of your resources with modifiers has been most unused in the 5e, but i like to recycle that idea because more than simply making a strong character, i wanted a strong thematic of a Runic Warrior who was born with a great inheritance from ancient titanical beings and would assimilate that in a aura of his own. He would have a calling of his own and would have to be charismatic to lead the people. I don't know how much of that was clear since i wanted him to be the most respectable i could while making him differ from a Warlord, but still i needed to value Charisma in some ways to make it worth picking.

• Titan's Wrath

AC Bonus: About this one, i agree that the charisma added to medium armor was too much and the initial version didn't had that feature. I stuffed it in there on purpose because although i had my share of campaigns,i wanted some insight of more experienced players in that as i was curious if i could make it worth to use a medium armor in the long run with a Barbarian, as Unarmored Defenses is to good to consider otherwise. (For now i will remove the effect entirely, but please give me some insight if you can ^.^)

Enabling Spellcasting: Well, about this one, i guided myself about this feature having in mind features similar to a Path of the Runescarred that i've seen and tested myself. He could cast spells normally, except that he could not concentrate on them and had a similar design to Eldritch Knight. There are already a lot of fighters and paladins that multiclass just to get the effects of rage, so in my experience although extending it to casters would be a big deal, i didn't see it as game breaking. Well, i did had some thoughts about multiclassing before making this one, but since it doesn't affects this class in its own, it doesn't hurt to remove the feature and give the archetype some credibility.

• Runic Arts

General: Worrying about the structure of acquiring spells is a fair point and i agree entirely that although i tried to space out the levels you learn them having balance in mind, i may have done it a little randomly. The Way of the Four Elements is a nice call, but i'm not entirely sactisfied with it either because of thematic. They are not spell-like abilities that were put in this order by chance, i tried to add the feeling that the progression of his titanical heritage is getting stronger and giving him more of a colossus line up, so exchanging the order would hurt the thematic.

Runic Blade:My mistake, you got it!

Protection from Arrows:: That's because to use Runic Arts, you must be in rage to activate them you, so it is assumed you already have non-magical resistances, but now that you said it, i guess that elemental damage coming from a non magical source would have a full effect? Well, gonna reformulate it then, i worried that if the damage was from a normal arrow for example, people would sum it with the resistance of Rage itself and assume immunity, which now that i think about it, wouldn't be as bad of an idea as it looked before.

Sagacious Reach:Well, i may reduce it to a "up to +5 feet" effect. The initial idea was that it extended the rage by 5 feets and could be used additional points to the maximum of 15 feets (3 points). But i was worried about the usage of resources that way and that the cost to be effective would be too high as Runic Power is shared in most of his features. I'll try decreasing it to 10 feets by default for the entire round and to increase it by another 10 for a single strike instead.

Blessing of the Runes: It already function as a reaction though. But yeah, it looks kind of strong even for a reaction, but the idea is that losing a reaction is more of a problem to him since Blessing of the Runes compete for resources with Protection from Arrows. Protection from Arrows is more of a broad protection that last an entire round and reduces damage instead of taking neutralizing it, while Blessing of the Runes negate a single potential damage entirely and leaves you open.

Gale of Steel: I wasn't intentional the "once per round" feature but it wouldn't be possible to use as a reaction anyway, since i stated "an attack action" and not "an attack". Opportunity Attacks are made with reactions and to the point that i'm aware, it is not an attack action. If it was, you could use the Extra Attack feature on it, which is not the case, so you cannot use Gale of Steel during opportunity attacks, rest assured friend! Also, have in mind that Gale of Steel has synergy with Sagacious Reach, so if possible i would like some feedback on that! >:D

EDIT: By the way, i exchanged the order you adquire Gale of Steel and Sagacious Reach. It also made their synergy more intuitive IMO.

Seismic Charge: Glad you liked it!

Firm Steps: Oops... old habits kicking in!

Overpower: That's because there is some damage boost to consider in the middle of it. Each strike is supposed to do double damage, but if you are not able to hit the first strike, you are not allowed to hit the second one at all. You missed the damage boost there and i guess i'm aware of your opinion of it as soon as you find out about it as well, it really is plenty powerful i suppose. I'll change it to make him do one hit and in the second one, he'll be able to choose to do an big swing to double the second strike on hit.

EDIT: I also added the effect that when you miss the swing, you also get unbalanced and loses your Charisma bonuses from your AC until the start of your next turn. I thought about maybe ending rage prematurely in a miss instead, but i didn't find any sense into this to explain why that effect would take place and it would be insane at the 20th level, so i gave up on it entirely. Also considered the possibility of causing him to receive a level of exhaustion everytime he uses this feature, in exchange of making him recover one level of exhaustion in a short rest and two or three in a long rest, but i'm not sure of how it would workout like this. I think you could help me out with that.

Judgement of the Storm: I was not exactly fine with this one either, but i'll keep it till i have a better idea. Thanks for poiting out the stuff, i'll fix what is missing making it paralyze creatures for 1 turn with the same DC as Gale of Steel and to be usable once per encounter.

• Eloquence of the Conqueror:I'm aware of it, but expertise in both Intimidation and Persuasion are essencial for the class fantasy that i'm presenting in my opinion, so i had to take measures to compensate for that. The first thought i had was to give him disadvantage stealth checks, but that was too brutal, which ended up in just making the character incapable of getting proficiency with it.

• Giant Killer: I actually thought that the grappling capabilities were more debatable though. I wish some feedback on that particularly if possible.

• The Roots Run Deep: Thank you!

I'm really grateful for the advice and i'll try to implement them to the best of my abilities. Very high quality stuff and on point suggestions, looking forward for your future suggestions! By the way, i'm also a fan of yours! Me and my friends have been using the Tiefling and Dragonborn variants you made, as well as the Path of the Survivor! (No Gloria Gaynor references)

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