Talk:PC Mounts (5e Variant Rule)

Copy-pasta'd from Talk:Centaur (5e Race)

So, I hadn't actually considered this when I made the page, but what exactly happens when the party's gnome monk asks to ride on the back of the centauri barbarian and he actually agrees to it? Is this still balanced, or do you think PCs being able to use each other as a mount in combat is potentially dysfunctional? In the example above, the centaur could go into a rage, drop the smackdown on an enemy, and be carrying someone who may be able to use reactions to defend him, or just finish the enemy off. Also, the halfling now gets that 50ft speed, which is good enough to warrant wearing armor. Even scarier is when the roles are re versed; a level 20 centauri monk can run 80ft up a wall in six seconds, and he could be carrying any one of his equally dangerous allies on his back. Actually, the book states no limits. He could be carrying multiple allies on his back. This is a bigger problem with the centabra subrace; they can carry humans and elves too. I know Mike Mearls ruled that PCs using each other as mounts "sounds fun", (the example given was a gnome riding on a dwarf's shoulders) but in this case, it seems potentially over the top.--Kydo (talk) 00:26, 20 January 2015 (MST)

Damn their laws and damn their lies, Oh sorry wrong sentence from the wrong film. but for real why think of rules and laws if the are not made in the first place. I say leave it as it is, plus PC who ride mount and move with them loss half if not all their speed so it is not that bad. Azernath (talk) 09:57, 20 January 2015 (MST)

Which rules do you think have priority over each other, given the unique situation presented by this race?

• (PHB p.176 under Lifting and Carrying) Carrying Capacity. Your carrying capacity is your Strength score multiplied by 15. This is the weight (in pounds) that you can carry, which is high enough that most characters don’t usually have to worry about it. Push, Drag, or Lift. You can push, drag, or lift a weight in pounds up to twice your carrying capacity (or 30 times your Strength score). While pushing or dragging weight in excess of your carrying capacity, your speed drops to 5 feet. Size and Strength. Larger creatures can bear more weight, whereas Tiny creatures can carry less. For each size category above Medium, double the creature’s carrying capacity and the amount it can push, drag, or lift. For a Tiny creature, halve these weights.
• (PHB p.181)Mounts and Vehicles. For short spans of time (up to an hour), many animals move much faster than humanoids. A mounted character can ride at a gallop for about an hour, covering twice the usual distance for a fast pace. If fresh mounts are available every 8 to 10 miles, characters can cover larger distances at this pace, but this is very rare except in densely populated areas.
• (PHB p.191 under Moving Around Other Creatures) You can move through a nonhostile creature’s space. In contrast, you can move through a hostile creature's space only if the creature is at least two sizes larger or smaller than you. Remember that another creature’s space is difficult terrain for you. Whether a creature is a friend or an enemy, you can’t willingly end your move in its space.
• Mounted Combat. A knight charging into battle on a warhorse, a wizard casting spells from the back of a griffon, or a cleric soaring through the sky on a pegasus all enjoy the benefits of speed and mobility that a mount can provide. A willing creature that is at least one size larger than you and that has an appropriate anatomy can serve as a mount, using the following rules. Mounting and Dismounting. Once during your move, you can mount a creature that is within 5 feet of you or dismount. Doing so costs an amount of movement equal to half your speed. For example, if your speed is 30 feet, you must spend 15 feet of movement to mount a horse. Therefore, you can’t mount it if you don’t have 15 feet of movement left or if your speed is 0. If an effect moves your mount against its will while you’re on it, you must succeed on a DC 10 Dexterity saving throw or fall off the mount, landing prone in a space within 5 feet of it. If you’re knocked prone while mounted, you must make the same saving throw. If your mount is knocked prone, you can use your reaction to dismount it as it falls and land on your feet. Otherwise, you are dismounted and fall prone in a space within 5 feet it. Controlling a Mount. While you're mounted, you have two options. You can either control the mount or allow it to act independently. Intelligent creatures, such as dragons, act independently. You can control a mount only if it has been trained to accept a rider. Domesticated horses, donkeys, and similar creatures are assumed to have such training. The initiative of a controlled mount changes to match yours when you mount it. It moves as you direct it, and it has only three action options: Dash, Disengage, and Dodge. A controlled mount can move and act even on the turn that you mount it. An independent mount retains its place in the initiative order. Bearing a rider puts no restrictions on the actions the mount can take, and it moves and acts as it wishes. It might flee from combat, rush to attack and devour a badly injured foe, or otherwise act against your wishes. In either case, if the mount provokes an opportunity attack while you’re on it, the attacker can target you or the mount.
• (PHB p.155 under Mounts and Vehicles) An animal pulling a carriage, cart, chariot, sled, or wagon can move weight up to five times its base carrying capacity, including the weight of the vehicle. If multiple animals pull the same vehicle, they can add their carrying capacity together.

One resolution could be to rewrite ungainly such that the phrasing has the character treated as "permanently mounted" with caveats for the knocked prone rules. This basically erases the idea of riding a centaur PC as a steed, thus alleviating any conflicts. On the other hand, it isn't very cool. Another option could be to fill the gaps by writing up a PC Mounts houserule.--Kydo (talk) 15:39, 20 January 2015 (MST)

The question is, is the Centaur a horse or a man? I say it is both and non. So we have to deal with each thing differently:

• Carrying Capacity, Push, Drag, or Lift should be the same as normal as any race because the horse is a large creature so he get more all things that follow,

but the Centaur are medium race beside the subrace so they are treated normally except the large sized one where they get double to all.

• what happen to the horse when he reach the 10 mile limit and then get replaced by another? they stay tired and take a rest. What happen when a humanoid creature run to it reach? it take a rest till he get better. So in both cases the Centaur get tired even if we considered him a horse or a man, so i would not suggest getting a Centaur as a Messenger.
• Evading enemies is still possible when medium creatures because the 5 ft base ground is big enough to pass even if the enemy is in the middle of it, but the large creatures can't do it any way unless the enemy is a small size or smaller, the rules apply to all.
• Mounting a Centaur is easy, it take half your speed to mount it and half your speed to dismount it, you can't control centaur for he fight for himself and do what ever it think best because it is an intelligent creature, you're just there trying to attack or do what you think best on top. But if the Centaur get frighten or knocked prone you deal with the same way with the normal horse.
• Some people do actually pull carriages so why can't Centaur do the same, don't be racist dude. ;) Azernath (talk) 18:38, 20 January 2015 (MST)

Ah, but you missed the key issues in each!

• With carrying capacity, you must logically account for the weight of the rider- most riders, plus all their gear, plus the weight of the centaur's gear would easily exceed their encumbrance limit. But steeds are not affected by this. So, what matters more? PC encumbrance or steed mobility functionality? Is being ridden the same as carrying? Is a saddle akin to a backpack?
• The rule on mount travel applies only to mounts themselves- NOT CHARACTERS. So, when being ridden, the centaur arbitrarily uses different rules for overland travel!
• The very last sentence on moving around creatures bluntly states that you cannot willingly end your turn in a space occupied by another creature. What is the centaur? A character or a steed? If he is still a character, any rider must get off his back at the end of their turn because of this rule. If he's a steed, he is essentially part of another character's inventory.

The obvious way around all of this is, of course, to pull a cart. An archer centaur with a cart full of casters sounds rather broken on a mechanical level, but not ludicrous or unbelievable.--Kydo (talk) 23:15, 20 January 2015 (MST)

You see here is the problem, the are not man or horse so the rules are a mix of both of the rules. for example:

• The build of the Centaur do help him with carrying the so called raider same as the horse, beside Medium PC can't ride Medium Centaur that is known so the weight is of a small PC is easy thing for Medium Centaur or you can say it have no weight because the centaur is the same as the horse, and Centaur don;t have to use saddles because of both pride and the raider not needing a saddle to stay on the Centaur Back because the centaur are free to move as they want so they are not allowing them fall easily.
• PC can't stay in the same 5 ft as the mount because it is above it and when they dismount they occupy the nearest 5 ft to the horse, so they are not in the same place but the are above it. And since PC can sit above another PC as long as the Size different is right, so PC can sit above PC last time i checked.
• They can't ride on with no rest so no long travel for them, at lest not as much as as multiple horses, and when pulling a crate they became unable to fight because of the crate.

But after all the talk it is the choose of the game DM to do with them anything he want. Azernath (talk) 01:00, 21 January 2015 (MST)

Would it be okay if you gather together all the special rules that the race has because of its shape and move them to another page? That way if anyone makes a similarly shaped race (a dragon ogre or a drider [maybe?] for example) they just need to link to that page. Marasmusine (talk) 01:44, 21 January 2015 (MST)

how do you suggest that? should we take it to the rules section? Azernath (talk) 02:33, 21 January 2015 (MST)

That's what I'm thinking. Marasmusine (talk) 04:06, 21 January 2015 (MST)

Done.--Kydo (talk) 12:28, 21 January 2015 (MST)

Rules

• Mounting and Dismounting: Mounting and Dismounting PC Mounts is the same as it is with normal mounts, but with a minor change that is if the PC mount decided to help you and if he did then you only spend 5 ft for any of the actions and the PC mount spend no actions.

• Mount Type: For the sake of clarity, a PC mount counts as intelligent, and so cannot be commanded the way a standard mohnt, such as a horse, would. Additionally, PC mounts count as exotic mounts, and so require an exotic saddle, whether they are terrestrial, aquatic, or airborne.

• Bareback Riding: If you are riding a mount bareback or with an inappropriate saddle, all checks or saves related to remaining seated are made at disadvantage.

• Rider Weight: Provided the total weight of the rider and their gear does not exceed the PC mount's carrying capacity, a PC mount can travel at full speed. Note that this does not count the weight of the mount's gear.