Talk:Oath of the Old Ones (5e Subclass)

Look at why changes were made to Oath of the Old Ones:

• Oath of the Old Ones' Spells should be 1st level for the first options, 2nd level for the second option... ect.

• Channel Divinity should be actions only and not have other effects(resistances)

• Cultivated Cultist changed to frightened

• Aberrant Ascendacy has minor balance changes

• Regeneration every turn in any way is broken on PC's, and should be changed to every hour. Also, the 20th level feature is incredibly strong as it currently stands and does not need to be buffed any more.

Besides that the Archetype is looking great.--Blobby383b (talk) 05:57, 7 August 2017 (MDT)

Counter argument:

• I agree, thx.

• If its only actions, where's the ally buff? It's called boon for a reason. In fact, all have names and flavor text for a reason.

• Cultivated cultist has flavor text makes no sense to change when we already have a frightbgon aura at level 10.

• There's need for an explanation why it's broken.

For info on Channel Divinity see the 5e SRD:Paladin class, the previous ally buff used spell slots when it should have just required an action and it was broken for providing advantage on all rolls. If you are looking for a more balanced of what a Channel Divinity buff would look like, an example would be the bless spell or if you want to replace it with advantage on only certain skills checks or some other more balanced buff, that will be fine as well.

I agree on cultivated cultist,

Regeneration every turn is broken because it removes the need for healing spells to be cast on you and removes the need to use hit dice for healing, both of which are balanced based on you having a limited amount of healing that is restored every time you finish a long rest. Healing every turn breaks this balance and returns you to full health for free after a few minutes, which no other class, race, feature or trait should be able to do. Anything beyond minor regeneration like what I changed the regeneration to is deemed imbalanced. --Blobby383b (talk) 09:42, 7 August 2017 (MDT)

I think the healing should be increased at least beyond just having the Con modifier. maybe a 1d6. because everyone pretty much regains full health after a long rest. tis guy should at least regen faster than that. Iberisdiablo (talk) 10:10, 7 August 2017 (MDT)

It would be fine to remove the advantage on death saving throws and the sharing the advantage on death saving throws and instead give the archetype double your Constitution modifier regeneration every hour. If you want them to regenerate more than what they currently can, I would recommend this change, but what you did works as well.

Also, you get you channel divinity back after a short(30 minute) or (8 hours)long rest, so it does not need charges, but I like the option for blessing people. Also to quote the Paladin class, "You must then finish a short or long rest to use your Channel Divinity again". --Blobby383b (talk) 10:26, 7 August 2017 (MDT)

One final thing is why was the regeneration buffed and sharing of advantage on death saving throws replaced with lose the ability to eat, drink, sleep, or breathe, as the new version of the third part of the 20th level feature is roughly as powerful as the previous version of the feature. Also, I believe you are getting the undead type and aberrant type confused, as aberrants are still living creatures, albeit strange ones, and usually still needs to eat, sleep, and breath while undead to not.--Blobby383b (talk) 04:43, 10 August 2017 (MDT)

Hello, fellow wikian! You've made a request on my talk page for review and comments, so I'm here at your service. (Well, I was a bit busy these days, apologies for that.) So here we go:

• Channel Divinity: Boon of the Old Ones. Psychic damage is nice and all, but force damage is where it gets troublesome. You see, very few features grants you even resistance against force damage. (If you're familiar with JRPG stuffs then you'll probably get what I mean when I use some examples like Almighty damage from Shin Megami Tensei and Persona franchise.)

Plus, using the bless spell sounds a bit confusing. I guess you confused things with the class feature and the Channel Divinity option here?

• Punishment of the Old Ones. Why is the saving throw DC a bit lower than your ordinary paladin spell save DC? Even if it's easier to resist, disadvantages on all rolls are still too powerful. I suggest you choose one of the three options: ability checks, attack rolls, or saving throws.

• Change of the Old Ones. I'll assume that this is your 3rd-level class feature, not a Channel Divinity option, and includes your ability to cast the bless spell.

Changing damage type of your Divine Smite feature is unorthodox, but I should say, I like it! Very appropriate. However, the problem with the force damage happens here again. I think psychic damag alone will do just enough.

Spell slot level penalty is simply gone in 5th edition. I guess you were thinking of using Metamagic feats in 3rd edition, but 5th edition doesn't work that way. I would suggest you can cast the spell as a 1st-level spell without expending a spell slot or material components once per long rest, but since this is a paladin archetype, even that would be a bit too much.

• Cultivated Cultist. Granting even more bonus on saving throws could be a gamebreaker, considering that paladin's Aura of Protection already provides you enough. I would suggest something like: When you or a friendly creature would make a saving throw agaist the effect of the spell, it can choose to automatically succeed on the saving throw. A creature cannot benefit from this feature again until it finishes a long rest. Additionally, as long as you are conscious, you cannot be charmed.

• Aberrant Ascendacy. Lesse here:

Gazer of the Beholder. "Expertise" is not a defined term in game mechanics. It's just a name of a class feature granted to bard and rogue. You must write the entire sentence to make yourself clear. Plus, I find things are a bit too penalizing for granting you double proficiency bonus on a skill and warlock's invocation-esque ability for disadvatage on resisting two conditions, one of which could be very crippling.

Alien Limbs. "Gain an extra attack", again, is unclear, and not even in par with 5e mechanics. I'd suggest you can make a melee weapon attack as a bonus action. Oh, and disadvantage on Constitution savihg throw is, again, too crippling for a tanky class like paladin.

Warped Flesh. The only class feature that grants you ability score improvement, other than your normal Ability Score Improvement feature, is barbarian's 20th-level feature. Bonus Constitution score, bonus AC, and damage reduction (which is unorthodox in 5th edition already) is too much. This time, halving all hit point regeneration is mediocre compared to the benefits.

I suggest scratching out all penalties entirely, and balancing out the benefits accordingly. In 5th edition, you normally are not punished for gaining levels, not even warlocks with Great Old Ones as their patrons.

• Undying. Wait, is this feature passive? Oh dear:

Like Blobby383b has said above, constant and unconditioned hit point regeneration is broken, case closed. This slaughters the balance of hit point economy entirely. You don't even need a rest to regain hit points, you don't need some petty cure wounds spell to keep yourself moving. Heck, it even defies your own penalties from Warped Flesh features granted at 15th level.

Negating necessity of food, water, sleep, and breath could be brought down to lower levels. Decapacitation mercy is kinda clever.

You are a paladin, whose hit point is among the highest of all classes and Armor Class the highest, and you have advantage of death saving throws? How on earth could you even die?

regaining all lost hit points, and removing all levels of exhaustions, once per long rest (I suggest refraining from "once per day" for player characters) is, again, disregarding hit point economy as a whole.

In many cases, paladin's 20th-level class feature involves transformation or at least toggling on and off. I suggest you might consider something like this. Maybe you can turn into an aberration for a short duration?

In short: The concept is nice and all, but the features might need more improvements here and there. I see you have some knacks in making "benefits and penalties" at the same time, which can be actually very useful in racial traits maybe, but not so much in class features. I suggest you might want to reconsider such options. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 07:20, 12 September 2017 (MDT)