Talk:Oath of the Lancer (5e Subclass)

You can probably cut out the majority of the Find Steed text block by linking to it, then further specifying the higher levels effect. Also, I can't help but note that the mid-level features for this subclass seem rather weak. Warding Bond is fairly strong, but the ability to cast it at one level lower seems mediocre at best - at 7th level, you already have three 2nd level spell slots, and the spell lasts a full hour. Advantage on perception while mounted is nice, but really more of a ribbon. The fact that these features are granted at 7th level - a level at which most paladins gain an aura feature, usually quite potent - serves to accentuate the impression of mediocrity.

The 15th-level feature also seems somewhat limited in utility. Useful if you're only intending on serving as a bodyguard and/or bloodbag for your chosen subject, but it raises questions on how exactly you're taking this damage if you're not in close proximity, and if you're facing anything with multiple attacks (or multiple enemies), the fact that it costs your reaction all but ensures they'll be downed on the next hit.

The capstone ability seems useful in a similar manner to the Life Cleric's Disciple of Life and Blessed Healer, but arguably to a lesser extent, and again it doesn't quite seem to fit the theme of a paladin capstone. Would that I had any kind of useful input on what features might do better in their place, but I'm afraid I am bereft of inspiration at this time. --Nuke The Earth (talk) 08:09, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

I tried to balance the other features around Find Oath Steed to avoid this being too powerful, since a player playing their cards right can end up with effectively twice as many hit points and a permanent flying speed. I had originally balanced the 7th level features around the Oath of the Crown's Divine Allegiance feature, but on second look it's a bit underpowered.

The idea behind Sacrificial Lion was that you're already connected to the target via magic, and was also originally balanced around Oath of the Crown, which once again is surprisingly underwhelming compared to other oaths. The current version is balanced off of Oath of Devotion's 15th level feature. Hopefully the most recent edit is more inline with the power expected of a paladin oath.--Ref3rence (talk) 17:54, 23 February 2025 (UTC)

The Oath of the Crown seems to have pretty good stuff, I think you may be undervaluing it. At 7th level, it gains an aura of blanket immunity to Charm effects, hard-countering any form of mind control. At 15th level, it's permanently considered to be under the effects of Protection from Evil and Good, which causes aberrations, celestials, elementals, fey, fiends, and undead to have permanent disadvantage on attacks targeting them, and grants it immunity to becoming charmed, frightened, or possessed by them. Its capstone is a 30-foot aura of 10 radiant damage, which I do feel is a little bland considering it's essentially a bigger Spirit Guardians with slashed duration, but I suppose size matters here, and at least it helps clean up mooks.

On the subject of the changes to this particular subclass, I feel that the aura is still quite weak in comparison, and while Compelled Duel is a fairly strong spell, I'm not sure it's quite up to snuff. I might advise rolling the Sacrificial Lion bit in with the aura, perhaps integrating Warding Bond into it as well - though that would likely end up with this subclass turning into a discount Life Cleric, and it may well be far too strong. The capstone now does feel quite potent, though I'm not sure enough in how the balance shakes out to speak on that any more particularly.

I do want to state for the record that I quite like the core idea behind this subclass, and I hope it can be refined to a nicely polished state. --Nuke The Earth (talk) 08:16, 24 February 2025 (UTC)