Talk:Nightbringer (5e Class)

There's a few flaws

So, I was just trolling the wiki for edgy stuff to make a joke character and I found this. Not having read through all this, the first thing that stands out to me is that this seems to be a dex & cha based class, without access to any finesse weapons. Maybe add something like a monk's Martial arts where it counts as a finese weapon? I'll probably do that. --ADragon (talk) 00:52, 15 March 2020 (MDT)

Ah, thanks for that detail! I had left the weapon proficiencies as I found them picking this class out of abandonment and had not even thought of that!--Yanied (talk) 10:36, 15 March 2020 (MDT)

So, a few more notes:

• it's damage potential is pretty low. It only gets extra attack in the rage subclass at level 7. Chaos slash helps, but it only has one or two uses per rest, single target, and it's a pretty late feature.
• The capstones are simulanteously underwhelming and OP. Double damage die against lawful creatures can be pretty strong, but that would only be useful in specific campaigns really. Shadow's ability to summon shades for 10 points seems underwhelming since at level 20, a CR 1/2 creature isn't that helpful, until you see there isn't a limit to this, so you could summon an infinite number of them given time, which makes things unfun for you and the DM who has to deal with that.
• It's out of combat features are fairly strong, 120 ft darkvision, and devil's sight with adv on perception and insight checks at 6, as well as unlimited flight.
• AC is pretty low for a class geared towards melee, since it can't use armour at all. At least until level 10, when you add cha.

--ADragon (talk) 12:44, 15 March 2020 (MDT)

I see. I might consider giving another extra attack then earlier, in addition to the later one. The lawful creature feature I want to keep definitely due to how it highlights chaos perfectly, and as you said it is rather situational in the most generic sense. The shades I will put a cap on.

On the out of combat bits, they are probably the reason why the damage potential and AC of the class is as low as it is. I was encouraged a while ago to make classes not only combat based. So I nerfed some combat ability to give it much better interactive abilities. The unlimited flight is not that bad considering how many homebrew races get unlimited flight at 5th level in my opinion, and could help until the low AC is bumped up by charisma.--Yanied (talk) 22:08, 15 March 2020 (MDT)

Alright, if you do give it an extra attack, and keep Rage's extra attack, it should either be at a higher level, or cost a BA A la frenzy barb, to keep in line with official classes. The capstones still need work. Being able to summon 2.5 shadows at level 20 is basically useless compared to something like Elder Champion or other paly features. I'd say have it summon 1 strong creature ~CR 5, or rework it entirely.

It's fine to make a Utility class, but the fluff should probably be adjusted. It makes it seem like the class is a frontline fighter/assassin, instead of a scout/skill monkey. Also, I don't think balancing classes against homebrew is a good idea, unless you explicitly make them to work together like for a homebrew setting, but even then, you should keep them in line with offical stuff so as not to throw off the game's balance.--ADragon (talk) 09:40, 17 March 2020 (MDT)

Not sure about summoning something like that since I was going for a bit of a mook-maker there, hence the word fief. I am with upping the number summoned, and maybe stating that they all basically share a single turn on a turn list. In my experience, that is one thing we do with large numbers.--Yanied (talk) 13:39, 17 March 2020 (MDT)