Talk:Metalborn (5e Race)

Hey, my name is Psolkaiyn and I'm the creator of this race. Feel free to put any suggestions or comments here along with your name, if you please. --Psolkaiyn Tantaloss (talk) 20:05, 27 January 2017 (MST)

I noticed a grammar tag has been added to the page with the reason stated as "excessively wordy" by Blobby (User talk:Blobby383b). Now, I have a rebuff for it, but reconsidering the 5e Race Design Guide,which is included on this very wiki, I'll allow it to rebuff the tag instead. As the guide states "your race should contain as much information as possible to describe your concept clearly, and to make the race as easy to adapt into a setting as possible. It is always better to be over-prepared for a disinterested DM than it is to be under-prepared for an interested one. A disinterested DM can still make use of a detailed and thorough race by just ignoring all the stuff he doesn't care about, but an interested DM may find a vague, ill-conceived race to be so much extra work to flesh out for her campaign that she simply bypasses it entirely. Remember that the interested DM is the one who is so interested in your idea, they are going to spend hours weaving your creation into their imagination, rather than treating it as another pile of numbers and functions for PCs and NPCs to hit stuff with." And so, the reasoning for the tag is rendered not only null but counter productive. I would remove it myself but I feel I must contact the editor before simply deleting his consideration, so he won't be offended and possibly so he doesn't make the same mistake somewhere else. --Psolkaiyn Tantaloss (talk) 18:21, 20 July 2017 (MDT)

The grammar tag has been removed with permission from Blobby. --Psolkaiyn Tantaloss (talk) 17:22, 23 July 2017 (MDT)

Reading through the race again, there is a lot of detail and thought put into trying to make the race include as much background info as possible. If the race were to be made more concise, you would lose some of the detail that is put into the race, making the race more generalized and less appealing to prospective players and DM's to use. So in the end, even if the race is wordy, it is not even close to lacking any depth. In fact, almost the entire race has abundant background info to help build a better immersive experience.--Blobby383b (talk) 17:57, 23 July 2017 (MDT)

Thank you for your effort, input, and praise, Blobby. I hope you will continue to help people with their creations and make this wiki a more reader friendly place. --Psolkaiyn Tantaloss (talk) 08:35, 24 July 2017 (MDT)

Saved Tables

Pay no regard to this. I'm simply keeping these if I decide to use them later.

===Suggested Characteristics=== When creating a Vintaer'V'Koln character, you can use the following table of traits, ideals, bonds and flaws to help flesh out your character. Use these table in addition to or in place of your background's characteristics. <!--Lead text--> {| class="5e" style="text-align: left;" ! d8 || Personality Trait |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 1 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 2 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 3 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 4 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 5 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 6 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 7 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 8 || <!--Text--> |} {| class="5e" style="text-align: left;" ! d6 || Ideal |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 1 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 2 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 3 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 4 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 5 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 6 || <!--Text--> |} {| class="5e" style="text-align: left;" ! d6 || Bond |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 1 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 2 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 3 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 4 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 5 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 6 || <!--Text--> |} {| class="5e" style="text-align: left;" ! d6 || Flaw |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 1 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 2 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 3 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 4 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 5 || <!--Text--> |- class="{{Odd-Even|{{#var:odd}}}}" | 6 || <!--Text--> |}

Feedback

Hey guys, feedback will help a lot with refining this race. It is in need of playtesting. I am, however, going to DM'ing for a player of mine with this race but I believe I'm going to need information from a few different playtesters. Thanks for your input if given. --Psolkaiyn Tantaloss (talk) 10:41, 28 January 2017 (MST)

Hmm, this may take a little longer than I thought. Well, if anyone happens to happen upon this race, feel free to try it and give feedback. I will continue to slowly add more stuff, fluff, and the picture when I'm done making them. All of the essentials are done. --Psolkaiyn Tantaloss (talk) 10:36, 1 February 2017 (MST)

Hello, fellow Wikian! I read your works, and I think this could be very interesting in play! I have some other things to edit and test-play myself, but I think I can do a quick review on this one. So here we go:

• Attributes. I think the optimal attribute bonus would be +2 in one and +1 in another. The current vintaern attribute bonus has a total of +4, and it is spread across three or four attributes. I suggest some integration would help.

• Asyandan. I love fluffs, especially concerning extraordinary bodily functions, but 2d6 would be too strong, considering that a dagger deals 1d4 damage and minotaur (from UA) horn does 1d6 damage. I do understand that asyandan is at the back of a vintaern, which means they would have some hard time using it actively, but frankly speaking, that means having a greatsword at one's back. I suggest 1d6 at best, and 1d8 if you want to make it a bit powerful.

• Other features. This could be suggestive at best, but how about using Conductive feature as a sub-race feature? I can already imagine a spellcaster with shocking grasp and a vintaern can make a perpetual generator. Also, the lightning damage a vintaern takes may ignore its resistance or immunity, if it has one (as in Overchannel feature.

I also suggest dividing Metallic Nature to some parts and distributing across sub-races. For example, Alluminum Skin would be much lighter than other alloys and metalborns, so they may be lighter than others. It is widely known that silver reacts to poison, so maybe they could have some exclusive immunity against poison (since D&D is a fantasy setting, it would not be so surprising if a metallic creature can, you know, be poisoned), and so forth.

I want to make myself sure that, this is one awesome user-made race I read in this wiki. I'm counting on you! --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 18:13, 6 February 2017 (MST)

Right, just putting this so you know I've seen your advice. I'll get to applying it as soon as I can. Should be some time tomorrow. Thanks for your input! Psolkaiyn Tantaloss (talk) 21:27, 6 February 2017 (MST)

Okay, I've got a little return feedback for you.

For the attributes I started at +1 to everything (from human which has +6 total) and then simply subtracted as I added more powerful traits. Then I moved points based on what a Vintaern was and balanced it at +4 total across them. I did try to make it so any class could fit with a Vintaern race if one played the points right.

Also, I halved the Asyandan damage as you advised after looking at the weapon chart. You're completely right, it was well overpowered. I don't know why I put that.

I did note that the damage to the Vintaern from the Conductive traits ignores resistance and immunity.

I also split up the Metallic Nature trait somewhat.

I do need ideas for a trait exclusively for the default sub-race to balance the subraces. Any you give could be helpful.

Thanks again for the feedback, it has helped. Feel free to re-reveiw if you need. I'm working on Blender to create pictures so the description isn't so abstract. Have a good day, fellow wikian. --Psolkaiyn Tantaloss (talk) 15:14, 7 February 2017 (MST)

Hello again, and thanks for the feedback! First of all, I want to say that it is my greatest honor to be of your service. It is always nice to see myself being helpful, you know.

For some ideas for sub-race traits, I would like to suggest integrating some of the vintaern backgrounds and settings into it. As far I see I spy some features that might be useful when determining sub-race traits:

• Edicts. A very lawful social traits, which could be integrated into racial traits. Maybe they are exceptionally bright when it comes to laws and rules, even in other places. I suggest dwarves' Stonecunning trait for the trait structure.

• Sparring. This might make some vintaern a trained brawler, I guess. I took some leaves out of my copy of PHB, and thought tweaking a bit of Tavern Brawler feat might be useful. All I worry is adding additional means of close-combat could be risky, considering that vintaerns already have asyandan.

• Grudge with Dragons. I can easily imagine Silver Skin and Precious Skin vintaerns are the biggest victims when it comes to dragons. Maybe they have grudge with dragons to the point that they have innate Favored Enemy: Dragons feature, or something similar to that. For balance matters, the statistics should be weakend to, say, +1 or something.

• Innate Spellcasting? This is just my idea, but some metals are considered magical in various cultures, so maybe integrating it into racial traits could be interesting. Since there is already silvered weapons in D&D, all unarmed attacks or even some weapon attacks by Silver Skin vintaerns could be treated as silvered weapons when damaging werewolves and similar beasts. Maybe some of the vintaerns can channel their inner energy into a simple spells, like tieflings do. Again, this is just my idea, so no pressures, mmkay? (Wink)

Once again, I am most grateful to be of help. Have a good day, fellow wikian! --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 23:21, 7 February 2017 (MST)

Hallo, I got some more return feedback. Here it comes.

I took your suggestion on the law knowledge, sparring, and Grudge stuff and added a small trait for each. Its a good idea, I didn't even think about integrating all the fluff until you mentioned it! I just thought it was just that, fluff. Now the Vintaern have more substance to them. Thanks!

I decided against the Innate Spellcasting idea (though it was a good one as well) because I'm trying to make a metal race with no fundamental connection to magic (like elves, nymphs, and tieflings). In that aspect they are closer to humans and even dwarves. Of course, like any race, they can go to a magic academy of some sort to learn magic, but it isn't innate. Sorry, thanks for the idea though! I did put in a trait for the unarmed silvered effect of the Silver skinned Vintaern. I never would have thought of that one.

With all the new traits I did decrease the ability score increases down to +1, except for the default skinned Vintaern (which has a +2 total to balance against no unique traits).

Thanks, once again, for the brilliant feedback. It would have taken me forever to think up all those ideas. Have a brilliant day, fellow wikian. --Psolkaiyn Tantaloss (talk) 16:10, 8 February 2017 (MST)

Thanks for the feedback! Always glad to be of service, it is my greatest pleasure. Have a brilliant day, fellow wikian! --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 19:26, 8 February 2017 (MST)

Rating

This review uses my rating system. The target is 4.5

Base race

• Ability scores (-1)
• Immunity to diseases (1)
• Advantage against petrification (0)
• Prehensile Limb. There's no facing or flanking in the core rules. No information on the attack is given. I assume it's a melee weapon attack that you're proficient with. Of marginal utility (0.5)
• This should be "lightning damage", not "electrical attack". Unclear what counts as grounded or not - as long as you're wearing boots you don't take the damage? If used correctly this is lightning immunity (1)
• Sinks Like a Stone (0). This describes stuff that is under DM adjudication, it could be much pithier.
• Polished Health (0). Don't use "month", as a calendar month may vary depending on the campaign. This feature seems like unnecessary bookkeeping. Also, a long rest is 8 hours, why does this all have to be done in one go? Can't I polish myself for 2 hours per week instead?
• Lawful Knowledge - make this double proficiency so that it's of use to characters who already have History proficiency (0.5)
• Spar Master. Of very little worth. (0.25)
• Favored Enemy. Ranges from worthless, to powerful, depending on how many dragons are in the campaign. (0.5)

Base race rating = 2.75. There's a large number of marginal or useless features. To me this feels like a weak design.

Default

• Abiltiies (+0.5)
• Dense Nature. If the race weighs heavier, then just make it weigh heavier. Making it specific to "weight controlled devices" only is, well, bizarre. Not a feature (0)

Steel

• +2 AC (2)
• Dense, ditto. (0)

Aluminium

• Agile. Wording should be something like "You can take the Dash action as a bonus action. You can do so three times. When you finish a short rest you regain your uses of this feature." Everything else is unnecessary detail. (1)
• Light nature, ditto for weight above (0)

Silver

• Poison immunity (1)
• Dense, ditto (0)
• Conductive. No information on the "touches another creature". Is it an unarmed strike? Any melee weapon attack? Could potentially deal a large amount of damage (1)
• Silver Player (0.5), value is dependent on types of creature in campaign

Previous

• Unrestricted advantage on a whole skill (2)
• Dense, ditto (0)
• Conductive. Ditto (0)

Some subraces are underpowerd. Some are a little overpowered, but within bounds. Dense/Light just needs replacing with "you weigh 4 times heavier / lighter than normal". Conductive really needs rewriting. Marasmusine (talk) 09:24, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Also, the race name isn't a proper noun, so should be "vintaern" rather than "Vintaern". Marasmusine (talk) 09:25, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

Righto, thx for the feedback. I'll get on it as soon as I can. Should be some time tomorrow. --Psolkaiyn Tantaloss (talk) 17:24, 30 April 2017 (UTC)