Talk:Maximum one round damage (Master Assassin) (5e Optimized Character Build)

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1. Sneak Attack only works once per turn, regardless of how many attacks you make. That "once per turn" clause of Sneak Attack is tricky.
2. Warlock doesn't get Extra Attack. It's a full casting class and could get hex at 1st level. Because of this the build would be possible at 10th level. You could take the Magic Initiate feat instead to get hex, but only if variant human is allowed for a bonus feat. If it was, you could get this build at 9th level.
3. Regardless of how many different features give you a bonus action, you can still only take one bonus action per turn (even after using Action Surge). War Cleric wouldn't give you another bonus action, and could be omitted to bring this build down to 8th level.
4. The spells hex and hunter's mark both require concentration, and as far as I know there's nothing in core rules that lets you concentrate on more than one spell at a time. (The invisibility and fly spells also normally require concentration, so you'd need to get those benefits from magic items or other party members.) You can cast hex as a bonus action, but as previously stated you can still only make one bonus action per turn. This setup would require a pre-combat turn of setup to get the most out of it.

In other words, at 8th level, with all five attacks (two Extra Attack actions and one bonus action) with surprise and advantage (thanks to Assassinate), plus an extra pre-combat turn to set up hex, you'd get...

47.5 from five normal rapier attacks ([4.5 + 5] x 5)

22.5 from each rapier attack being a free critical hit in the surprise round (4.5 x 5)

17.5 from five hexes (3.5 x 5)

7 (2d6) from one Sneak Attack

= ~94.5 damage on the first turn assuming all attacks hit, and there was a pre-combat turn to set up hex.
= ~77 damage on the first turn assuming there was no pre-combat turn, and the bonus action was used to make a fifth attack instead of casting hex
I think either is not bad first-turn damage at 8th level, though it is maybe a bit lacking for a minmax 11th level build.

For example, any 11th level fighter with 20 Str wielding a greatsword can use its own Action Surge to deal ~72 damage [(2d6 + 5) x 6)] without needing a turn or two to setup, without needing a feat, without needing to win an initiative roll, and with a bonus action to spare. If it used Magic Initiate too, and cast hex as a bonus action, it would get ~93 damage. It could take a Fighting Style to boost its average damage even higher. - Guy (talk) 16:55, 12 December 2017 (MST)

Response

1. It is unfortunate that sneak attack is once per turn
2. One of the warlocks eldritch invocations (Thirsting Blade) gives extra attack. Thank you for reminding me that warlocks get hex at first level, I managed to get myself confused.
3. Thank you again, I was not aware that this rule "You can take only one bonus action on your turn, so you must choose which bonus action to use when you have more than one available." existed. The wording of the rule and the existence of a extra bonus action from action surge implies that you can take two bonus actions but they must be the same action which would allow the War Cleric ability to be used twice. So it depends upon how the DM interprets the rule whether one or two bonus action attacks can be made. Again thank you for pointing out this issue.
4. The invisibility and fly spells are meant to be from items or teammates. And there is supposed to be a pre-combat turn where Hex can be cast as you are supposed to be sneaking and see your target before they see you.
5. In your damage calculation it seems that you have forgotten that the hex and sneak damage is doubled by Crits (damage rolls) and you missed the dueling damage so the damage is 129 without the seconded bonus action attack and with the seconded bonus action attack the damage is still the original 152.

Thank you for your feedback it is awesome to reduce the level requirement of this build and to know of issues, and it is also nice to know that someone is reading this. - Author of Master Assassin 8:38 12 December 2017 (NZST)

Problems, Suggestions

1. Problem: Vorpal weapons do not activate on critical hit, they activate on a natural 20 attack roll. This means they won't work with the Assassination

rogue's auto crit.

1. Problem: Smite, Improved Divine Smite, Savage Attack, and Orcish Fury don't apply to Hand crossbow attacks.
2. Problem: The Orcish Fury feat's extra damage can only be used once, regenerating on short rest.
3. Problem: The build doesn't have enough spell slots do to 4 4th level smites, using the multiclassing rules you would only have 1 4th level spell and 3 3rd level spells. I think at some point this was considered, which is why some of the smites say 4d8 instead of the proper 5d8 for a 4th level spell slot, however, it still says it's using a 4th level spell slot, and even if it didn't there is still one too many 5d8 smites.
4. Problem: The damage calculation is a mess of edits, obviously. There are more small errors than I can recount here, and I believe the final damage calculation doesn't add up even ignoring that.
5. Problem: This build has long since ceased to be core rules only, it should be moved to WoTC rules only.
6. Suggestion: Use 9 levels of bladesinger wizard and 2 levels of paladin instead of 11 levels of paladin. Bladesinger means you still get the extra attack you need, but you need to give up half orc. As a 9th level wizard you have better spell slots for smites. Additionally, you can give up the hex spell and cast the Haste spell on yourself before combat instead for an another attack. -Non-accounted user, 7:36 PM PST 11/9/2020

Response

I’m very sorry that you had to go through all that, because someone definitely screwed with my work. If I could I would take a picture of the paper I did this on and post that instead, but for now I’m just gonna leave it this way, because it took forever to write that, and I’m not doing it again. You are right on those things though, and I always took into account most of them, but at the end of the day no DM in their right mind is going to allow this in their campaign anyway, but if they do I don’t think they are going to argue with the small things, cause when you say “I’m gonna roll about 100 dice” the DM has already banned you from the campaign.-non accounted user 10:37 Pm 20/12/2020

Response to my Response

I decided to completely rework the master assassin, and have come up with a better one, which deals alot more damage in all categories, and I think I will rewrite it. The people deserve to know what can be done.

Changes

I’ve added a core rule book only build. I don’t know where the previous build got 2 extra attacks from and vorpal blade does not trigger on critical hits but rather natural 20’s but otherwise I’ve added a new build that is better.