Talk:Master Sniper (3.5e Prestige Class)

Work in Progress

So far I'm still working out how balanced it is. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ShadowyFigure (talk • contribs) 14:59, 18 June 2007 (MDT). Please sign your posts.

Rating - 1/10

I give this Prestige Class a 1/10 because it is unplayable. This is an awful class. It is just wrong. It needs wikifacation for starters. It makes D&D wiki look bad. There is no explenation, and the wording sucks. Sneaky shot? Cheap rip off of sneak attack and it does not make sence. You have not folowed the wiki template at all, have you? And all the explenation is in bold. Title go in bold: not text. Longer history? yeah, right. This is not a longer history. The feat is in the wrong section as well. Shove it out, place it in the feat section. Ranged attacks should NOT increase in range, even via a feat. "Im a great bowman and suddenly I can fire further than my bow can" This class is unplayable. It needs a rewrite. And master Sniper is a feat already, too! This class is not neaded. look up the core books and players handbook 2 if you need that much help and if this is your first creation then make some armour or weapons and get some experience in D&D wiki. RERIGHT NOW!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Darknight227 (talk • contribs) 13:02, 20 June 2007. Please sign your posts.

Dear anonymous,

you're right but you could say these things in a nicer way. There's no need to start a fight here. Besides, your spelling is not much better than the ShadowyFigure's, it might be better to lead by example first and then criticize others. --Mkill 21:59, 20 June 2007 (MDT)

easy now this is his first class and you could really advise not tell off you are just trying to get angry for no reason leave him off i think it should be better but it's still alright maybe a bit unplayble like you said but treat others how you wanna be treated your self tweak it abit shadowy and then you'll show them —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shadow7angel7 (talk • contribs) 07:09, 21 June 2007. Please sign your posts.

Well so I logged onto D&D wiki this morning to find such a lovely little slagging post in my discussion area for Master Sniper. First I'd just like to say thanks to anyone who didn't slag but instead gave me advice or stuck up for me.

Second Dark Knight? Are you 12? because you seriously are acting like someone that imature. Go play DnD? I do I have a years worth expieriance I am indeed new to D&D but it doesn't mean I should be treated like scum. I did not deserve your comments. I always belived that the older users should take the newer ones under there wing not shove them out into the mindfield that is criticsm then shoot at the ground around them.

Its a shame you couldn't have been nicer but I guess thats just you.

Thanks again every one else.

ShadowyFigure 08:22, 21 June 2007 (MDT)

Rating - 1/10

I give this Prestige Class a 1/10 because lets just say i agree with every thing darknight227 just said —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sws (talk • contribs) 06:09, 21 June 2007. Please sign your posts.

Rating - 5/10

I give this Prestige Class a 5/10 because it needs some work but can be fixed.easy now this is his first class and you chould really advise not tell off you are just trying to get angry for no reason leave him off i think it should be better but it's still alright maybe a bit unplayble like you said but treat others how you wanna be treated your self. tweak it abit shadowy and then you'll show them —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shadow7angel7 (talk • contribs) 07:13, 21 June 2007. Please sign your posts.

Rating - 2/10

2/10 for a general and undefined idea.

Generalizations are your enemy here, and this is quite general. As well, the flavour text is at odds with several of the class abilities. I'd feel better about this class if I didn't keep misreading the name as Order of the Bow Initiate.

To get this out of the way: why would a king pay a million gold for a single archer with a few bonus feats and some sneak attack damage? o_O Especially in a military situation, where most likely he wouldn't be able to attack a flat-footed opponent.

Prerequisites

Why hide? The text just says that Master Snipers are good archers. There was no mention about sniping. And slapping a time limit of that scale onto a class's learning period is a serious game killer. A lot can happen in two years. A period of training is naturally acceptable, but an explicitly defined yet ambiguous time limit (can he take breaks?) will nuke a game in a hurry.

I also have reservations about Bow Sniper. The reason Crossbow Sniper exists is to give crossbow users an edge against fighters who will most likely be applying their strength bonuses to damage rolls. We need to know if Bow Sniper stacks with the composite bow strength bonus, because if it does you're looking at a relatively large amount of damage per attack.

The Table

"See rogue class skills"? No. Just...no. It's lazy, forces the player to reference another source unnecessarily, and doesn't even comply with the class's flavour. Why does a sniper need open lock? What about disguise? Forgery, for crying out loud!

Class Features

Giving the player Improved Critical at first level is unwise in that it's a level eight feat, yet you're allowed access to the class at level five. I'm not opposed to it being there at all, just being at that particular level.

I'm still not sure why you're bothering with all of this precision damage. Snipers are special because they can attack from far away; usually too far away to apply sneak attack damage.

Your bonus feat section is a wreck. For one thing, you need to come out and say whether we can ignore the fighter level requirement on those feats, because fighters sure can't. For another, although you're implying that a character only needs one ranged weapon to focus on you're allowing enough feats to master two weapons, which is stupid in the context. It's also plausible to gain Greater Weapon Specialization at ninth character level, making it possible to have over +6 to weapon damage for a weapon that ordinarily doesn't have a damage bonus (more with crossbow sniper, a composite weapon, and decent strength and dexterity scores).

I don't like steady aim. Bonuses to confirm rolls I can live with, to attack less so. Basically at ninth level of the class your BaB goes up by 3 (because we're naturally not using melee weapons in this class). BaB is too powerful to just be handing out like candy, which is why Greater Weapon Focus has such a heavy requirement.

Overview

Master Sniper is bland and unexciting. It takes the basic fighter and tosses it into a blender with the basic rogue with two parts random feats. It thinks it's a fighter, yet it thinks it's a rogue. Because of this, we have a dull creation that can be mimicked by simple multiclassing. A closer approximation to this concept would be a feat similar to Daring Outlaw from Complete Scoundrel, which lets rogue levels count towards the Weapon Focus series. Or you could just take Order of the Bow Initiate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.66.94.141 (talk • contribs) 17:21, 21 June 2007 (MDT). Please sign your posts.

I will take what you have said and improve the class. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by ShadowyFigure (talk • contribs) 01:13, 22 June 2007 (MDT). Please sign your posts.

Aight.

Since the author has evidently given up on this for the moment, I'm going to move Darknight's far more comprehensive page into this spot. I hope no-one minds. --The Archivist 07:12, 11 September 2007 (MDT)

The above ratings need to be nullified, in that case; and the ratings on the master sniper page should be added instead. --Sam Kay 10:12, 11 September 2007 (MDT)

They have been nullified. The rating will soon be added. The page here has the discussion from the other master sniper included. --Green Dragon 15:26, 11 September 2007 (MDT)

Cool Class

hey kool class did shadowy figure do your class again becuase his is worst than yours. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sws (talk • contribs) 14:54, 20 June 2007 (MDT). Please sign your posts.

Rating - 7/10

I give this Prestige Class a 7/10 because it is much more balanced than shadowy figuers. You are being unreasonable. I will remove this. --62.171.194.39 05:10, 21 June 2007 (MDT)

Repeat Version

Hmm yes very uhh good. The fact that you went and slagged mine off then made something that preatty much mimics it is just... Well anyway not a bad class shame it's a cheap version of my own. --ShadowyFigure 08:14, 21 June 2007 (MDT)

Even though it's absolutely pointless considering that he's not here anymore, I'd like to point this out to all you DWikists as how NOT to criticize. Not only is this one rude, blunt, and unhelpful, it also conflicts rather heavily with his reply near the top, asking people not to do what he just did. Don't do this, folks. --The Archivist 07:28, 15 October 2007 (MDT)

I concur. --Green Dragon 16:14, 15 October 2007 (MDT)

Rating - 8/10

8/10 for a structured and sensible class.

Not much to say here. I like the officious wording of the class features and the darker spin you're putting on the class. However:

1. Lots of sneak attack. This class already has the benefit of a full BaB progression and bonuses to attack that scale with level. Tossing so much sneak attack dice on top of that makes it a vicious murderer. Remember, the rogue only has a 3/4 BaB and no special bonuses to attack, and so has less reliable strikes with that damage. I'd recommend toning the progression down, from every two levels to every three (1, 4, 7, 10).

2. Unspecified bonus feat. If it's not there to add flavour it probably shouldn't even be there at all. Remember, it's no crime to have a prestige class that has a level with no special bonuses added onto it (but don't do it too often :P).

3. "...hit their marks in the eye at fifty paces." Sneak attack has a thirty foot range.

I still like it though. ^_^. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.64.7.129 (talk • contribs) 13:14, 25 June 2007 (MDT). Please sign your posts.

It might work if you made it a bit less sneak attack (less than a rogue), but without the range restriction in return for the restriction that it's ranged weapons only. The rest seems OK- Perfect Shot is comparable to the Arcane Archer's Enchant Arrow, but trading off the lack of damage bonus with the fact that it stacks with enhancement bonuses. MorkaisChosen 09:51, 15 October 2007 (MDT)

I was toying with my own Sniper class a while back, and ran into a similar problem with the "sniping" and 30 foot range on Sneak Attacks. I eventually decided that since the snipe damage comes from accurate hitting of a target, that as you prgressed through the class you started adding your Dex bonus to damage. Sorta like: at level 1, max +1; level 3, max +2; ... Not sure if you what you think of this, or if you're even checking anymore. ~ M4rcd4rc 09:34, 29 July 2008 (MDT)