Talk:Marionetista (5e Class)

The buffs to the class seem a bit much considering the possibility of breaking turn economy as it is with your marionettes. Is there any justification behind these changes to increase this class's power? If not, please don't.--Yanied (talk) 21:04, 18 January 2023 (MST)

Proposal

The class itself is very well written, but it is very much based on a class that at higher levels will end up getting weak since it doesn't have Buffs that increase the chance to hit being +4 until level 20, creatures for players level 12 already have great defenses and the chance to hit will be very low, plus their health is very low too, 4d8 the strongest of them? This gives a maximum of 37 health with an Int of 5, the creatures break in 1 slap and will take months to fix, I recommend increasing the amount of doll slots, putting Upgrades in Slot 4 that increase the hit by +2, in slot 6 with +3 and propose a life table for the dummies.

Wood: 5 + your Puppeteer level
Lv1: 6 Life Points
Lv20: 25 Life Points
(Addition of 1 Life Points per Lv)

Stone: 5 + 2x Your Puppeteer Level
Lv1: 7 Life Points
Lv20: 45 Life Points
(Addition of 2 Life Points per Lv)

Iron: 5 + 3x Your Puppeteer Level
Lv1: 8 Life Points
Lv20: 65 Life Points
(Increase of 4 Life Points per Lv)

Metal P: 5 + 4x Your Puppeteer level
Lv1: 9 Life Points
Lv20: 85 Life Points
(Increase of 5 Life Points per Lv)

So the dolls would evolve with the player. And the last point only 12 slots at Lv 20, it's too little taking into account that upgrades that use 12 slots, please consider increasing

This player has 7 marionnettes to control by level 20 though, and not to mention they will likely be in a group of people. If you buff the marionettes too much, this player dominates everything because numbers beat quality in dnd due to control of action economy. The marionettes are also supposed to be physically upkept, compared to growing along with you like a familiar or drake. Have you playtested this against first party content to see if these dolls are underperforming?--Yanied (talk) 19:27, 23 January 2023 (MST)

:/

I tested it with another master and a friend of mine, even though the amount was high at level 20 being 7 puppets, which is a large number, their life was very low, practically every combat I lost all puppets if I had any caster as an enemy, because they are prosperous in area damage, dragons and other creatures with area damage too, and against others without area damage stone and wood did not last even 1 turn and iron lasted 2 to 3 just because of its AC. The class is very puppet based, if you lose them it's pretty much useless. Second on the hit having an Upgrade with +3 hit and following the inner game with 7 more would be great because 18 AC in a level is very common to find on enemies and the chances of hitting with +7 are balanced taking into account that a player manages to hit +11 until the end of the game. And about level 20 we have to take into account that in a campaign to reach this level is to consider reaching the end of the campaign so I believe that the player will spend more time with 4 or 5 puppets than with 7 ((In addition to the short expensive if production))

Please think, I've already played 19 tables with the class and I'm level 9 and practically every fight I'm stuck with nothing to do because I'm out of dummies because they're too weak. The class is based on them and if you lose them in combat you are useless and with nothing to do. If you have to multiclass then it's not even worth playing with the class. I think we better talk more in an easier place, if you want AdriewRoyal#0105 my discord, so I can better explain what I'm trying to say

Hmm, I can understand cutting down production since downtime is very sparse in many games, though I had designed this for games where people get more downtime. I will mark that for disclaimers. I am interested though in what other people were on your teams. So far, I can think of some of the following compromised buffs that will not make this an overpowered minionmancer:

• increase the range of puppets so you can better position and maneuver them and so lessen the chance of a total AoE nuke
• Decrease downtime to about half so at level 20 its only 1d2 days (maybe even just 1 day)
• Feature to raise broken marionettes in combat as a last resort thing.

On increasing attack bonuses, I think I need some more opinions, as that is very powerful. Keep in mind that this class isn't exactly meant to be the strongest attacker. It's a spread-out thing.--Yanied (talk) 19:56, 24 January 2023 (MST)