Talk:Lycanthrope (5e Class)

Apologies if I've named the page incorrectly. There's an incomplete class by the same name, so even though this isn't a variant of that class, I didn't know what to call the page otherwise.

You named the page correctly so no worries. In the event the incomplete one is deleted, we can look at moving this to a namespace without variant in the title. I think you are safe that no one, or not many, think this to be a variant of that. cheers ~ BigShotFancyMan 08:44, 22 April 2019 (MDT)

Feedback

Just a quick note, the author on DMSGuild has uptdated the class adding the wererabbit and the weredragon as option plus some minor changes.

Missing:

• The Extra Attack and Ability Score Improvement feature needs to be mentioned in the description of the class.

• Bleeding Slash "uses of this feature are restored after a long rest." You need to add "after finishing a long rest", otherwise it is unclear if the uses are regained when you start a long rest but are interupted from finishing it. "The rest is over, do i get my Bleeding Slash back?"

My concerns on balance

• Bloodlust takes away agency from the player. Since they need hybrid form to make use of most of the features of the class this feature feels overtly punishing without offering the player a benefit in return.

• Bounded accuracy means that a permanent, set bonus on attack rolls is to be avoided. (Beastly Precision (half proficiency bonus) and Wolf-Hybrid Form: if i read that one correctly, it lets you duple the attack and damage bonus from you strength, once the everyone gets and the one from the class feature.)

• There is little the class gets outside of its hybrid form. If the character can not transform, (for example because they used all their transformations and are ambushed or because there are people not knowing of their secret nearby) there is little they can do, only retaining the most basic features.

• Advantage on attack rolls (Pack Hunter) might be very strong, but i think it should be playtested before any judgement is made on it. Some races get pack tactics earlier.

• Depending on the origin chosen, the class has very few things for any pillar of the game besides combat.

• The regeneration, especially cannibalistic regeneration, is strong. While there is a risk of attacking your allies and doing more damage then you have healed, this can be circumvented by your allies leaving your sight. This would grant you almost unconditional regeneration, which is something to be avoided. Concerning Lycanthrope Regeneration: While the champion fighter gets a stronger variant later on, the (comparatively) early level at which you gain the power is concerning.

• Because the resistance against damage is only against non magical damage, its use is very situational, depending on whether you fight enemies with magical slashing piercing, bludgeoning attacks, like high level demons or if you fight low level enemies without silver or magic.

• Finally, the totem powers are not balanced against each other. Situational advantage on charisma checks against getting the rogue's uncanny dodge or a strong damage boost, for example. As such, while they would help with alleviating the problem of the lack of non combat, non hybrid forms actions, the available slots will most likely be filled with the strong combat options for hybrid form.

Otherwise, i think it shows you have invested effort and time in making your class. Good job, especially if this is your first one. I would recommend removing regeneration or moving it to a higher level, getting rid of the bonus on attack rolls and instead giving the character (small) features outside of hybrid form that are not combat focused and non optional to take. If you need further help, check out the class design guide if you haven't already.

Lastly, remember to sign your posts on talk pages. For this, press the second to last button from the left. (The one between a canceled W and the minus sign.)

Like this: --Kara (talk) 23:45, 21 April 2019 (MDT)

To reply:

• I've added the missing sections, knew I forgot something.
• Lowered the DC of Bloodlust checks to 5 or a quarter of damage taken.
• Removed Beastly Precision feature.
• The concern about not being able to do much outside of hyrbid/animal form although the uses of those forms do replenish on a short rest so unless they're getting into 2+ combats without resting even for an hour they should be fine.
• To kill two birds with one stone, would it be worth making the regeneration only work when you've not taken damage on your previous turn but it works out of hybrid form?
• Pack Hunter could be quite strong, but as you said given that some races give you a similar feature it "should" be alright.
• For each origin there's at least 1 trait that's not combat related (the wereboar is an exception), but ultimately it has a similar amount of non-combat features to the Fighter or Barbarian.
• Already touched on the regeneration earlier, but could also lower the amount gained to purely the constitution modifier (min 1). Also I've changed the Canabalistic Regeneration to be a 1 use per short or long rest so no longer unconditional.
• The damage resistance is akin to the barbarian's rage feature and, like that, it becomes less useful when fighting enemies with magic/silvered attacks. Still works against anything with normal attacks at higher level though.
• The balancing for the totem powers is skew-whiff likely because you're probably the first person I've shown this to who actually read through everything. They're based off the invocations that warlocks get though and those have the same problem of some being more useful than others, or more obvious choices. Do you think the number of powers you can have is reasonable though? Should there be more/less?

Thank you for the compliment and this is the third one I've made, the first one was a mess and the second is an Inquisitor class I haven't posted here because I doubt you need a 3rd variant of that idea on here. Also I'll remember to do that from now on, still new to all the formating and such on here. --Foxfire94 (talk) 16:33, 22 April 2019 (MDT)

Just a very small and minor thing, but I think Lycanthrope Origin should be before Hybrid Form. It personally makes more sense to me for the player to decide what their curse is before what abilities that curse gives them. I just wanted to put that out there. --DevonTheTaylor (talk) 9:56 AM, 21 August 2021 (PST)

On the werewolf page, there's a typo that says "tenquency" which, as far as I know anyway, should say "tendency" :) I haven't noticed any other errors though. I would also like to know how many d4 die to use to create custom starting equipment. I found it to be similar equipment to a rogue, so I'd guess 4? But it isn't my class so I'm unsure if that is what you would do. Sphragistics (talk) 17:08, 18 May 2023 (MDT)

Proofreading

Hey, Foxfire94!

I've been going through your page fixing any sentence structure errors and grammatical errors. I'll probably finish later tomorrow but I just wanted to let you know what I was doing! Thanks, and cool page! :)

Sincerely,
EpicBoss99 (talk) 21:01, 29 April 2019 (MDT)

Thank you very much for letting me know and thank you! I very much appreciate you taking the time to go through and improve the formatting though, I'm rather new to the wiki formatting. (Also apologies for all the 'u's in words, I'm English so it's a force of habit.) --Foxfire94 (talk) 00:58, 30 April 2019 (MDT)

I think this class is amazing (maybe even "featured article" amazing), so I'd like to contribute with a note. "Were-Hell Hound" doesn't exactly rolls off the tongue, so I think it would be fine as just "Hell Hound". Keep up the good work!
-- DevonTheTaylor (talk) 16:17, 17 October 2020

Thank you! I'm glad you like the class so much! If you want to grab a more up to date (since editing here is awkward with the page locked) version in pdf format (with a new subclass) you can take a look here. As for the Were-Hell Hound, the name was in keeping with the others since you're not playing a Hell-Hound in the same way you're not playing a Wolf or Bear with the other subclasses; you could always shorten it to Were-Hound if that's easier on the tongue? --Foxfire94 (talk) 21:40, 17 October 2020 (MDT)

Balance Concerns

Hello again, Foxfire94!

After going through the entire page for grammar and sentence structure errors, there were a few changes i'd like to see from the page. As the page is now, the weretiger is far more powerful than any other lycanthrope archetype. On the other hand, the wereraven and wereboar archetypes are severely underpowered. Other than that, here's more specific things that I'd like to see change:

Wereraven:

Swooping Blow - This is too similar to the wereboar's charge and the weretiger's Pounce and I think it should be removed and replaced with something else. Maybe give the opportunity to disengage as a bonus action? Or take the 2nd part of the wererat's Scurry feature and place it here. It makes more sense that way.

Keen Sight - How would the player know that an item was worth 100gp? This part of the feature is worded strangely.

Weretiger:

Feline Agility - Advantage on dex saves is way too much, especially when it's considered one of the most common saving throws. I suggest rewriting this feature.

Eye of the Tiger - This kinda seems like something that should be given to the wereraven. Maybe find something else here to add?

Pounce - This is the exact same thing as the wereboar's Charge feature and the wereraven's Swooping Blow feature but better. You get an extra attack on top of what the previous two do. I honestly think you should get rid of this or at the very least make it less similar to what the wereboar does.

Werewolf

Inspiring Howl - This is too similar to the werebear's Terrifying Roar feature, only it's weaker instead. Gaining advantage/disadvantage on one attack in a turn is way too weak at 18th level. Honestly, I think this feature should be replaced with something else.

TOTEM POWERS

Adept Climber - I really don't think this should be a werebear-exclusive totem power. All werecreatures are capable of climbing to an extent based on my knowledge of them.

Cat-Like Reflexes - This is just the rogue's Uncanny Dodge feature. I feel like this would be a good thing to add to the weretiger archetype to replace something else but as a totem power it's completely broken because you can freely swap it out with something else.

Disease Carrier - Reducing a creature's Hit Point maximum isn't really something you can do in 5e. I'd reword the second part of this feature.

Feline Balance - I feel like this is something that the wereraven could have as well, considering that it can slow its fall using its wings.

Immovable Beast - This is something that all lycanthropes should have access to as well.

Pack Master - This definitely needs to be rewritten. This allows everyone to have the Pack Tactics racial trait, and that is super overpowered.

Plague Rat - This should have a level restriction at the very least. Dealing 2d8 + 1d4 damage at 1st level is too good.

Quickrunner - Remove the last part about gaining advantage on resisting the paralyzed condition.

Thanks for reading, and I do hope you consider the changes I'd like to see! :) EpicBoss99 (talk) 21:04, 30 April 2019 (MDT)

Hello again, EpicBoss99!

Thank you very much again for fixing all those errors and setting up the links! Speaking of the Wereboar needing a boost, I had an idea to make Brutish Swine give advantage on Strength (Athletics) checks.

Wereraven

Swooping Blow

- It's similar for sure but it's more designed to mimic a "fly-by" attack which is why you have a higher chance of moving away from the target of your attacks. I didn't want to give the feature freedom from opportunity attacks though at the risk of it becoming too powerful. Additionally you can make both of your attacks (or all three) and still use the second half of it. The feature only requires you to make one attack and after you've done that you can move away with the target having disadvantage on their opportunity attack. This would also enable you to do this to up to 3 creatures a turn provided they meet the 15ft movement requirement.

Keen Sight

- A fair point and my idea was the the DM would know what's in the area, however I'm going to change this to be "advantage on (Perception) checks made to spot items".

Weretiger

Feline Agility

- I've had a brainwave for this one, remove the advantage on dexterity saves and instead allow an unarmed strike as a bonus action if you take the dodge action on your turn.

Eye of the Tiger

- I mainly included this to represent the Tiger's decent night vision and keen perception.

Pounce

- While it may seem similar to the wereboar's charge (I've already mentioned how the wereraven's swooping blow is different), pounce can be used against up to 3 creatures on the same turn if need be (by using your bonus unamred strike and as opposed to two the wereboar can do) or you can knock down two creatures and make a bite attack against one of the two.

Werewolf

Inpsiring Howl

- Would making this feature remove any charmed & frightened conditions from friendly creatures in addition to its current effects help make the feature stronger?

Totem Powers

Adept Climber

- Funnily enough the only werecreature in the Monster Manual (or CoS) with a climb speed is the Werebear, hence this decision.

Cat-Like Reflexes

- Pretty much, not sure how making it something you've got to lose another totem power you've currently got (since they work like a Warlock's invocations) for when you're high enough level to use it (or wait until you get a 4th at level 20) means this is broken, but I could change the feature to simply let you take the dodge action as a bonus action.

Disease Carrier

- Reducing a creature's Hit Point maximum is more common than you think, creatures like Vampire Spawn can inflict this upon player characters. Whilst this wouldn't worry mooks, it will certainly have an effect on a BBEG that gets away, an unfortunate NPC or another party member bitten by accident (or on purpose). I could change the refresh time to once a minute rather than once a day though.

Feline Balance

- Whilst that's true, a Wereraven with a fly speed is unlikely to be falling while conscious. Also this totem power affects the user whilst not in hybrid form which would make less sense for the Wereraven.

Immovable Beast

- True, although this was done to make the werebear the more "juggernaut" style subclass of the group. I could however extend this to the wereboar too, but the idea of a large and unmoving beast fits the bear most of all.

Pack Master

- The upside: people are more incline to focus targets to gain advantage. The downside: your allies are closer to you if you lose control, rogues would already get advantage for you being next to that creature anyway, and simply flanking the enemy with an ally gives you advantage anyway. However I will put a level requirement of either 8th or 15th on this.

Plague Rat

- I could either make the damage 2d6 poison or put an 8th level requirement on this one.

Quickrunner

- Fair enough, although this was based on the "Freedom of Movement" spell.

Thanks again for proof reading this mess of mine, despite trying to show this to everyone one I can the few replies on here are the most feedback I've had about the class so it's a big help! --Foxfire94 (talk) 22:22, 30 April 2019 (MDT)