Talk:Lich (5e Class)

Feedback 1:

• Saving throws should be Wisdom and Constitution
• Blighted or desecrated Land instead of hunted
• Quick Build should be Int, Con if mage and Str, Con or Int if knight. Hermit background.
• Skills should add nature and deception and remove insight and perception
• Should make the Phylactery like this, "If a creature is aware of your lichdom than you have disadvantage on persuasion and deception checks against them, however, you have advantage on intimidation checks against them."
• Soul Phylactery: Consider making something that is like, "I make an oath to not sustain my already unnatural existence by consuming good or neutral but will instead take the souls of evil creatures and use them to extend my own life energies."
• Blood Phylactery: Creatures with innate magic or more magical origins such as elves and Dragonborn should provide more than a human commoner. As well as casters that are actively using their magical ability.
• Magic Phylactery: Over-reliance on allies or other casters magic here so consider creating something to forcibly drain spell slots from incapacitated casters, creatures and magical objects or items or places.
• Improved drain touch shouldn't scale on strength but rather INT
• Each archetype should have some archetype specific spells like different domains do for clerics and should be dropped to 3rd or 2nd level.
• Consider giving Death knights some sort of weapon/ armour bond they can channel their necrotic energy into to manifest certain effects and checking out the DMG or MM(don't rmb) death knight(and cleric) classes. Also, consider giving the death knight the ability to use their hit die to use their drain touch with their weapon attacks.
• Mage needs something to gain higher level spells since the death knight has his martial stuff so the mage should get more cool spells similar to a warlock. You should also add the other table for the Mage since the death knight table is the only one there.
• Sword and sorcery shouldn't be something the mage has imo as it steps on the death knights toes too much and you need to differentiate both archetypes substantially in playstyle and ability with only a few features.
• As your Phylactery is made from a piece of your soul having it destroyed multiple times or even once, should have a permanent negative repercussion. Including something about the effect of dispel magic and such spell being cast on you, a creature sustained by magical means.

ConcealedLight (talk) 12:34, 15 October 2017 (MDT)

Feedback 2:

• Capitalisation Please.
• Prerequisites
• There need to receive an arcane focus as spellcasters.
• The class lacks survivability and any form of DPS at early levels. Casters have cantrip to spam in the back and martial classes have stronger weapons or features to use that make them better at it.
• Archetypes should really be at 1st level due to the difference in playstyle and forcing someone who wants to be a mage to go sword and board for 3 levels until they get some mage stuff would not be very fun for the player.
• They should have at least 1 death save. Make it like a zombie's undead fortitude.
• Drain Touch: Make it 1d8+CON mod, they can use it as many times as they have hit dice and they can spend a number of hit dice to increase the damage appropriately equal to their proficiency bonus.
• General Phylactery: You need to specify that each of these things has a unique resource pool specific to each type of phylactery.
• General Phylactery: I like the idea of sacrificing power from the phylactery to fuel certain abilities.
• General Phylactery: There needs to a consistency with each of these phylacteries. An example template could be: they have their own passive benefit, a way to gain power, a way to use the power other than surviving, a conversion method from blood, spell slots, or souls to power and a way it affects your drain touch.
• Soul Phylactery: Consumed souls should power for a number of days equal to the creatures CR + proficiency bonus( the skill needed to extract the soul), rounded down.
• Soul Phylactery: Should be able to eat creatures that have died within 1 minute(like revive spell). Shouldn't cost a charge of Drain Touch to eat its soul.
• Soul Phylactery: The soul limit should be equal to the level in Lich class + 1 and there shouldn't be a limit on the amount of power(ie if I killed 3 dragons and ate three dragons I should get 3 dragons worth of time). Should probably be something about the value of souls, like how 20 guards souls aren't as powerful as a CR20 dragon.
• Soul Phylactery: Soul Protection should reduce phylactery power but an amount equal to the dice rolled.
• Blood Phylactery: Should specify an amount, measure it in pints of blood. Human has about 9.6-12 pints but let us just say humanoids have 10 pints in total for simplicity. Value 10 pints at 7 days of power and specify that you can't put any less than 10 at a time. Also, talk about it involving a ritual of you dropping your phylactery in a pool of blood and saying some ancient stuff while it soaks up that goodness. Ritual can be done over a short rest.
• Blood Phylactery: Make sure to specify what races count as magic but just do the standard PHB and end it with an 'etc'.
• Blood Phylactery: You can drain the blood from a creature by placing it on the creature's chest. If the creature is alive it makes a save or becomes paralysed and loses a pint of blood. It can remake save on its turn to not be paralysed. Creatures dead or alive lose 1 pint per round. Or smth like that I'll leave it up to you.
• Blood Phylactery: Arterial slash good for the death knight, what about the mage? Make this good regardless of their archetype.
• Blood Phylactery: "The amount of bloodshed from Arterial Slash is enough to fuel your phylactery." When you establish how much it takes to power this with blood you can tweak this.

• Magic Phylactery: There needs to be a conversion method from spell slots to phylactery power.
• Magic Phylactery:
• Magic Phylactery: If you are going to stealing spell you and them need to make contesting spellcasting ability checks(in addition to the one for drain touch), you win you get a slot you don't you are knocked back 5ft.
• Magic Phylactery: They can use the steal slot ability a number of times equal to half their spellcasting mod and recharge on long rest. (Though I am tempted to say simply once per long rest)
• Magic Phylactery: Ritual should be something like this, "You spend the duration of your long rest using yourself as a conduit for magical energy from the Weave to power your phylactery. At the end of your long rest you can sacrifice spell slots to your phylactery which are worth 1 more then they would be if you or another caster had sacrificed them to the phylactery under normal means.
• I FORGOT EARLIER BUT YOU NEED TO ADD IN THE TYPICAL SPELLCASTING FEATURES THAT ALL SPELLCASTERS HAVE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CLASS
• Ethereal Walk is in the wrong place due to gained level.
• Ethereal Walk: You can use a reaction to reduce fall damage to 0.(like monks but you get it at level 5)
• Ethereal Walk: You can use your bonus action to hover off the ground as per the levitation spell. If you are attacked while levitating this effect ends until you use it again.
• Improved Drain: Make it so you can use this as a bonus action.
• Paralyzing Touch: No level on this feature.
• Paralyzing Touch: Remove effect and replace it with they become paralysed(like the status condition).
• Paralyzing Touch: Specify it requires an action.
• Absence of Life: No level on this feature.
• Absence of Life: Remove "This damage is increased to 1d6+6 if the creature is below half health and is a living creature." Instead replace it with, "creatures that make death saves while in this aura need to roll a 15 or higher to pass"
• Absence of Life: Specify it requires a bonus action to turn on. Also, add some fluff that plant life and such begins to wilt in your presence.

• Warrior's Proficiency: Make this level 1.
• Lich Fighting Style: These can't be classified as fighting styles instead call them something like Faces of Death. Then call them something like Face of Strength, Face of Nightmares, Face of the Immortal.
• Lich Fighting Style: make this level 2 to solve low damage issue
• Unholy Strength: Remove unarmed strike.
• Nightmare Duelist: Remove "When you make a disengage action, you can attack with a single weapon as a bonus action." Add "You can use two-weapon fighting even when the one-handed melee weapons you are wielding aren't light" (After the Duel wielding feat)
• Immortal Body: CON first then INT
• Brutal Strikes: They should get this at level 5
• Necrotic Smite: Level 8 like a clerics divine strike. Should become 2d8 at level 14. Change name to Channel Death. Add in the same limitations a paladin smite has but change fiends and undead to celestials. I think you should make this a shared feature that they can both use except the mage adds it on to their spells.
• Slaughter: Change name to Slayer, all one use per long rest, word something like this "If the target is a creature that has 100 hit points or fewer, it must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or die."(modelled after the solar's slaying longbow). This applies once to your next attack and you can make an attack against them if they pass their save.

• Dark Magic
• We have already talked about levelling stuff.
• Blood Magic: Rush of Power
• Strength of Will: change to Necrotic Will. Change to INT
• Potent Evocation: You spend a round channelling death into your magic, at the end of the round you can cast the channelled spell at one level higher then you cast it, not higher than 9. If you are damage during the channelling time you must make a concentration saving throw or the spell is cast immediately after you have been damaged. Or smth like that.
• Improved Strength of Will: Lacking.

• Losing your Lichdom: You make it sound so easy here and throughout the class. I'd recommend reading the entire section on liches in the monster manual as well as their entry(and the death knights) in the DMG.

• General Comments: It's got some real potential to be a great class and but the theme is weak and features are lacking in certain areas either by being not there or not being good for the level.

I just found this class again (I am the 141.55.116.133 guy), I will take a more through look over the next week. I will need some distraction from my Exams anyways. --Celepito (talk) 11:31, 20 June 2019 (MDT)

I feel like this should be a full spellcaster class. This is a wizard that gets benefits from being undead, I would take some of the undead benifits away/rearange them. Then add the spell slots for spell levels 5-9. --DNDalltheway

I believe the Dark Mage subclass is what you're looking for. — Geodude (talk | contribs | email)‎‎ . . 18:05, 14 July 2020 (MDT)

Thanks Geodude. I didn't see that there.

I just made soul phylactery more understandable if anyone else was confused by it, I know I was. --DNDalltheway

Also, does anyone else feel like the number of days soul protection takes up should be reduced? Just asking before I do it.

Deletion

Support First, the request template was removed prematurely and no discussion has occurred. Second, the page consists of about 27k bytes, about 20-21k of which are attributable to the original creator of the page. Beyond the rule that a page should be deleted by request of the creator, the only conflict would be that there are other major contributors that would need to be convinced to let the page go. Penning one third of the page alone is certainly grounds for earning the title of "primary contributor" but that term is undefined in the official policies of this wiki, making it an ambiguous and unreliable tool in the resolution of such issues... Beyond the citation of numbers of bytes contributed. --Max7238 (talk) 13:45, 30 May 2019 (MDT)

What about the fact that I (and surely others) still use the page for active campaigns? Would we be allowed to simply make a copy of this page as a variant? --Moth (talk) 17:50, 30 May 2019 (EST)

The author has offered to make PDF copies of such pages upon request. Also, like I said above, it's not exactly likely to be deleted unless the discussion proceeds in the author's favor. --Max7238 (talk) 16:18, 30 May 2019 (MDT)

And if this page Were deleted, would I be allowed to re-upload it again (though I'd likely change up some things) or is that against the rules of the site? --Moth 15:33, 12 June 2019 (EST)

The page isn't going anywhere, and if it did, the license this site uses allows anyone to steal the page and re-upload it verbatim wherever and whenever they want forever. --Max7238 (talk) 15:38, 12 June 2019 (MDT)