Talk:Leshen (5e Race)

Shouldn't this be a subrace? 210.10.166.112 23:04, 19 March 2017 (UTC)

Ostensibly yes. But there's no rule against making a separate race. On the other hand, I can't see this surviving in its current state. Marasmusine (talk) 09:11, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Working on some grammar issues. I am so worrying about the compulsory education courses these days. (And this comes from a guy whose first language is not English.)

Apart from the obvious problems I face - other than grammar issues, that is - I find the premise of this race rather... interesting. No, seriously. The sci-fi atmosphere of this race is actually pretty neat, although I cannot help but wonder if it really had to be elves. Maybe I can help improve this page with a bit of passion, this would make a wonderful race on the Spelljammer setting. (I first thought of integrating this race into the Spelljammer setting, but on a second thought, who am I to judge such decision?) --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 13:51, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

Dear 65.129.22.69, if you happen to read this: I did some grammar bumps and re-works on your work, I have to say I am most impressed at your works. However, here are some comments I would like to share with you:

• Premise. Just to ensure you, I love the sci-fi atmosphere in the race. I mean, space elves! With genetic modifications! One thing that bugs me is, did it really have to be elves? Just asking, nothing so serious on this question.

• History. There are no such thing as a D&D world, because there are at least six of them, each with different history, backgrounds, and even races. I decided to go by Forgotten Realms, which is basically your typical fantasy world in a nutshell, and also the official D&D campaign for the 5th edition.

One thing I found interesting with the setting is, that there is a D&D campaing setting that features spaceship - or jammership, as the thing is called there. The setting is called Spelljammer, and I had the idea that the lost elves would find that setting really native. (FYI - there is a homebrew campaign setting that simulates the Spelljammer campaign on the 5th edition. In case if you are interested, I suggest you check it out.)

• Ability Score Improvement. The base racial trait grants +2 bonus, and the subrace trait grants another +2 bonus. You might want to consult your copy of DMG for this - I decided to reduce the Intelligence score increase into +1 for balance issue.

• Plasma Gun. I found this weapon too strong for a racial starting equipment, which is why I changed it into stunners that temporarily paralyzes the target instead of dealing damage. I was inspired by the phaser gun from Star Trek series.

• Speed. Climbing speed is not usually granted to player character race, hence the deletion. Sorry there.

• Aspect of the Beast. I thought against the disadvantages on Charisma checks and Dexterity (Stealth) checks while in beast forms - that would be too critical for a trivial transformation. See lycanthropes from your copy of MM.

• Canine: Wolffish [sic] Stamina. Ignoring exhaustion could be a bit too strong for a racial trait. I instead decided to implement some of the ranger's class feature to simulate something similar.

• Canine: Canine Savagery. The wordings could be misleading. Besides, this is just me, but I am against the buffs dedicated to dealing damage only.

• Canine: Fire Weakness. I thought of this for a long while, and decided that it might be a bit unfair for these chaps to suddenly become vulnerable to fire damage. I scratched out the cold resistance, though.

• Feline: Advanced Vision. Truesight is too strong - one of the few spells that grants truesight is true seeing, and that is a whopping '6th-level spell. I thought an ordinary blindsight would still do the trick.

• Feline: Tale [sic]. Having a prehensile tail can be a problematic, especially when given to a determined loonie or munchkin. It is a shame to waste a good feature, but I thought, better safe than sorry.

• Feline: Skittish. My apologies, but I could not make a head nor tail on this one. Hence the deletion.

• Reptile: Ability Score Improvement. I added a +2 bonus on Constitution for reptilian subrace, in par to other subraces.

• Reptile: Sight. The idea was fancy, but blindsight and tremorsense could be a bit messy, so I decided to scratch off the blindsight and expand the tremorsense. I added the Sunlight Sensitivity trait in order to simulate the shortsight.

• Reptile: Hard Scales. Unarmored Defense is a class feature for barbarians and monks, so I thought it would be too strong for a racial trait. Instead I took a leaf from the fighter's fighting styles to tone it down.

• Reptile: Cold Blooded. Cold resistance is okay, but fire weakness was a bit messy, so I scratched that out as well.

Phew! That was a long one. tl;dr - I love this race, this one has a unique vibe, but it seemed it needs some improvements and revisions. If you have any comments on my re-work, please let me know - this might be a rude for someone who interrupted your work, but I would welcome a feedback from the original contributer. Have a nice day, fellow wikian! --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 15:09, 21 March 2017 (UTC)

So I made them elves was because it made the most sense for them to live for so long and that they would be more integent, and lost elves sounds cool

And I agre with you about the truesight and the plasma gun, but I felt that 10 was to small and would render the stunner absolute at later levels. And it would be to easy for a DM to just stick in a necromancer or something, and I want the tools at a PC disposal to be a,ways be useful --Creator of The lost Elves

I agree with you, "lost elves" definitely sounds cool. Like I said, I was just asking of that.

I also agree with the stunner might be a bit obsolete on higher levels. Maybe I can implement some scaling system, in lieu of other saving throw DCs. Thanks for having me here, I think we can make this thing real cool.

Oh, and one more thing. If overheat works exactly same as reload, why not just use reload? I know the stunner is somewhat sci-fi, but there are rules regarding all these, and you cannot just add whatever you think is cool without following those rules. I think the overheating issues can be simulated with limited ammo and a chance of malfunction when the ammo hits zero. (I took some leaves out of wands, by the way.) --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 10:52, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Just finished another round of edits. You will find some minor changes here and there, I am not good at elaborating things. So I guess this is probably the best I can come up with now... Again, thank you for having me. I hope your lost elves are awesome. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 11:36, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

Okay, I did another round of edits, you would fine some other minor changes here and there. Additionally, I have some stuffs that I would like to discuss with you:

• Concerning the age of lost elves, I think 1200 years is a bit too long for any ages. I mean, elves can live about 750 years, but sometimes I find even that too long. If you gave the lost elves long lifespan for the sake of them surviving long after the Great Fall, I would like to suggest the possibility of cyronics, the technique of freezing living human (and humanoid, in this case) body to preserve their life for long duration.

• I forgot to explain my stance on the lost elves' technique, but the former feature that enables them to build some items that are not listed on the item table might be a bit questionable. What are the exact statistics of grenades and other tools? Do I use the conventional rules for crafting items, or do I use some other rules? Can other races craft those items if they learn it from lost elves? Due to all these questions, I decided to erase that bit out, which you might find a bit offended. If you are, I want to express my apologies for that.

• Frankly speaking, I am not the master when it comes to balancing traits and features, and recently I feel something of a mannerism and sort. Maybe we need someone else to look up the racial traits and tell us which part of them could be improved.

So far, that's all. If you would like to make any comments, please feel free to make them here. I'm all ears. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 06:59, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

You've done a great job. There are some things I would change.

• Reduce the stunner's charges to 3, since paralysis is quite a powerful effect to give to a low level character.
• Rebuilding the stunner should just use the crafting downtime activity, you just need to set the gp value for materials.
• Is beast form supposed to have a duration and recharge? There doesn't seem to be any point to not being in beast form, you get a lot of bonuses all the time. My guess is that the form should last for no longer than 1 hour, and you regain the use after a long rest. Marasmusine (talk) 08:10, 24 March 2017 (UTC)

Acid damage, that makes so much more sense, the stunner has a chance to malfunction each time it's used so the more chargers it has the more likely it is to break. And the beast from is what they actually look like they would change out of it as a sing of respect or to blend in to a crowd, and for sicurty resons, changing out or into a form to prove authenticity. --Creator of The lost Elves 19:02, 24 March 2017‎ (UTC)

I do agree that 7 is kinda big that's part of why l made one of the personality traits involve shooting people --Creator of The lost Elves 19:07, 24 March 2017‎ (UTC)

Thanks for Marasmusine for the review, I owe you a lot.

• Now that I see it, the stunner's paralyzing feature is powerful for a low-level character. I followed your advice and reduced the stunner's charge to 3. The malfunction system might be a bit too awkward, there are not much charges already (seven is still too little for jamming) and a malfunction means that you have a chance of losing one of your personal firearm in the middle of the combat. I thought against that.

• Dear Creator of the lost Elves: Please note that the personality trait is not mandatory, it is used as a mean of fleshing out the character. Just because your personality trait happens to be I don't like being asked questions, next time I'll shoot their face off does not mean that you must shoot them in the face. Besides, it would be so disturbing if you have an elf-ish fellow in your team that shoots his/her own teammate when asked questions. This is not Paranoia, you know.

• Beast form features are strong, so yeah, I agree on restricting time of the beast form. I acknowledge the settings, yes, but that still does not justify having all the powerful features at any time. A determined loonie and/or munchkin will come up with an excuse to expose their true forms all the time.
• Also, while I'm at it, I changed the Darkvision feature as a main racial trait, and added some other features for each subraces as a compensation. Again, I am no master at balancing, so I am still not sure whether this is an improvement or... the other way around.

Well, that's it for now, I guess. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 01:14, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

An ideas struck me: What happens if someone else steal or borrow a lost elf's stunner and use it for himself/herself? In this case, the scaling save DC could be bothersome. For this reason, I changed the save DC back to a fixed number of 15, and while I'm at it, I also increased the stunner's charge by 1, a total of 4. Please let me know if this is a bit broken or anything. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 01:23, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

It is essentially the reverse of a Druid so most of the time it is in its animal humanoid form and transforms to a full lost elf when the elf wants to show respect or not bring attention to him or her self --Creator of The lost Elves 03:44, 29 March 2017‎ (UTC)

That sounds nice, but what Marasmusine and I are concerned is, is there any other benefit for not being in the beast form? Other than revealing yourself as a beastly humanoid? D&D is already a fantasy roleplaying game, and a walking beast is not much of a warning sign, when you concern that dragonborns and tielflings are accepted in the society. Besides, I can't think of a way to make an appropriate benefit for not being in the beast form. This sounds like a challenge, but it is something that we should find a way to solve. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 04:23, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Oh, and you add your signature with two dashes(-) and four tildes(~). Saves a lot more effort to show who wrote which. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 04:23, 29 March 2017 (UTC)

Maybe the disadvantage on charisma checks that the original draft had would help balance and give a reson to switch back and forth between forms--Creator of The lost Elves (talk)creator of the lost elves

I think I fixed the problem with the stunner and I hope I not intruding to much but what's your first language, just curious:)--Creator of The lost Elves (talk) 04:53, 30 March 2017 (UTC)creator of the lost elves

Theres still one unfixable problem with this race most back ground riquire you to have experience with the world and one of the big points of this race is "I am very smart but do not have very much experience with this new world" and this kinda limits role play.--Creator of The lost Elves (talk) 05:12, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Maybe we can improve the beast form part a bit more, all the beautiful bonus the beast form takes is still too much to be covered by disadvantage on Charisma chekcs. Perhaps we could divide some of the beast form features into elf form features?

Stunner save DC is problematic, I agree. I think there must be a way, but I just can't get my hands on it for now.

Speaking of background - I'm not sure with this, but the Great Fall (the event when the lost elf space-ship crash-landed the new world) is pretty long ago, right? If I could live over a few centuries, chances are I would send some of my kins to explore and find out what the world looks like, if not I go there myself. If the Great Fall is very recent, it would be a good chance to start the expedition. Perhaps the background can refer to the previous background a lost elf had, back in the old homeland.

Oh, and I happen to live in a time zone of +09:00 GMT, which covers two major cities: Seoul and Tokyo. I also happen to speak both languages myself, as well as English. Sorry about the comment above, sometimes I can't get my childish arrogance under control. If you are offended, I can erase that part myself. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 11:08, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

I thought about them using a back ground from there past in a another world but, rustic hospatalty, none of the commoners they saved and gained the trust of are in the d&d world they crashed in, And the "great fall" I was thinking that it was a recent event many people do not no about, and the experienced but still young would be sent out. So 400-600,

Okay, I'm back on track.

I see that you are rather stubborn with "make more advanced things with them like parachutes or smok bomes,the detailes are up to you and your DM" part, from the Technology Friendly racial trait. The point is, you don't need to put that in the racial trait - if your DM accepts it, so be it; if he/she doesn't, you can't.

Plus, if you can make parachutes or smoke bombs, why not the others? There are already alchemist's fire that works just like a fire bomb, the artificer class from the Unearthed Arcana article has smoke sticks which is basically smoke grenades, and any creative player can come up with a makeshift parachute by combining ropes and bedsheet. You are limited only by some of the most fundamental rules given by your trustworthy rulebooks, and the rest is limited only by your imagination. That is one of the ultimate reason I am against that part of the racial traits.

I am not personally a fan of "you are being discriminated because your race is rare" kind of racial traits. There are already dragonborn, half-orc, tiefling, and many other races in the world of D&D, so what exactly makes you the one at the bottom of the racial caste? "Balancing" doesn't enter into it, because that doesn't make sense fluff-wise. Not all other races must treat lost elves badly because they're, well, alien - maybe there must be some kind-hearted (or freaky) people who can and will embrace all' people of all races because they truly believe that the world is just a big neighborhood. In that case, you cannot enforce your background into the mechanics - I think that part can be let out for good.

Like Marasmusine said above, there still is no reason for a lost elf to not assume the beast form. If you're taking some leaves out of druids, you can use some more penalties, such as: You cannot cast or concentrate on a spell while you are in the beast form. You can only communicate via growling and howling while you are in the beast form. And many other features that can integrate both fluffs and mechanics at the same time.

I see that you want the lost elves to be a "new" race - just crashed in, not many others know this. What I suggest is, maybe lost elf character can work their way into the new world they face, starting with a friendly neighbor. I personally encourage players to make a 3rd- or 5th-level character at the start of the campaign, and in that case, a character with that much level is most likely to save a town or two from a bothersome business, so that would fit the Rustic Hospitality feature. Again, this would be how your DM would decide, not the rules to give you what to do.

So that's my comments for now, my life just got busy recently and I'm afraid I cannot be around here all day. I personally think that some traits could be tweaked for better results, but I'm not exactly sure which traits are. I'll add the {{requestreviews}} template for more helps from others. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 06:43, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

I added a werewolf thing they go crazy once a month should help balance back to math class #multitasking--63.230.123.155 15:49, 18 April 2017 (UTC)