Talk:Jumper (3.5e Class)

Copyright

Is this derived from the movie with the same name that was recently in theatres? If so, it needs to have {{Copyright Disclaimer}} put at the bottom of the page. -Valentine the Rogue 02:00, 14 April 2009 (MDT)

Rithaniel said in the tavern that it isn't. Even though that wasn't the intention, it's similar enough that it might need it anyway. Someone who knows more about copyright law should take a look at this. --Daniel Draco 05:36, 14 April 2009 (MDT)

It doesn't need it if it wasn't the intention. Copyrights aren't the same thing as trademarks. Surgo 07:41, 14 April 2009 (MDT)

I suppose that's settled, then; no disclaimer on this one. -Valentine the Rogue 14:45, 14 April 2009 (MDT)

Yay I win? → Rith ^(talk) 19:00, 14 April 2009 (MDT)

You know if ya really want to get rid of copyright stuff you could just change the name but is only a suggestion. By the way sweet class--Stryker-Fyre 18:12, 18 November 2009 (MST)

Rating

Power - 4.5/5 Mobility is the key to victory, although this class could enforce more control over the battlefield. Good damage outcome. --Lord Dhazriel 11:48, 17 April 2009 (MDT)

Wording - 5/5 Clean, so I guess it worth a 5 --Lord Dhazriel 11:48, 17 April 2009 (MDT)

Formatting - 4/5 Some section are missing, otherwise pretty much okay. --Lord Dhazriel 11:48, 17 April 2009 (MDT)

Worth a 5. --Lord Dhazriel 17:37, 27 April 2009 (MDT)

Flavor - 5/5 This class jump over my standard in flavor. --Lord Dhazriel 11:48, 17 April 2009 (MDT)

Rating

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because this class could kick butt —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.143.85.161 (talk • contribs) 22:58, April 27 2009 (MST). Please sign your posts.

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because sounds cool, easy to understand —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.143.85.161 (talk • contribs) 22:58, April 27 2009 (MST). Please sign your posts.

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because fits all rules —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.143.85.161 (talk • contribs) 22:58, April 27 2009 (MST). Please sign your posts.

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because its an extremely unique and it would probably would be cool if it had a speed bonus —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.143.85.161 (talk • contribs) 22:58, April 27 2009 (MST). Please sign your posts.

Jumping

Ok, i like the class. but are there any limitations per day on the Jump ability or can you use it as much as you want? second, does jumping count as your minimum of 15ft movement for the Nimble Strike ability? -Tyraxor, 5:18pm, 5/7/09

Well thank you for the interest Tyraxor, and to answer your questions, no, there is no limit for how many times a day you can use the ability. Though, it does eat up your swift action (and consequently your immediate action) for the round, meaning that there are several things you cannot do (recover manuveurs, if you are a multiclassing Warblade, for example). As for the usage of Nimble Strike and Jump together, that is actually addressed in the Nimble Strike ability description, "A jumper who uses the jump class feature during a round counts as having moved 10 feet for the purposes of these attacks, no matter how what distance they actually teleported across". Thanks again for the interest man. → Rith ^(talk) 19:29, 7 May 2009 (MDT)

The Jumper

Rethar Battle; This character has a feat that he does not meet the prerequisite for, Whirlwind Attack. Rethar needs to have Combat Expertise in order to take Whirlwind Attack, and he does not. Instead he has Combat Reflexes; I would recommend that Combat Reflexes be exchanged for Combat Expertise. 20 Sep 2009 2:45pm EST wdwilson1

Rating

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because this class may be slightly over-powered, but it is focused more on the Jumper's unique type of combat, so it balances out. --24.121.127.112 12:35, 1 June 2009 (MDT)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because the class's description is very... descriptive. The choice of wording is as if I was reading straight out of the book. --24.121.127.112 12:35, 1 June 2009 (MDT)

Well thank you very much for the rating, but, may I ask what book you are talking about? → Rith ^(talk) 12:54, 1 June 2009 (MDT)

The "Jumper" novel. --Jota 13:53, 1 June 2009 (MDT)

Oh, thanks Jota. Also, for anyone who reads this in the future, this class is in no way, shape, or form, based off of anything going by the same name. → Rith ^(talk) 14:27, 1 June 2009 (MDT)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it was as if I was reading it straight out of the book. --24.121.127.112 12:35, 1 June 2009 (MDT)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it is focused on one type of combat, yet there are many possible ways to use this class. The Jumper's style of combat also intrigues me, because of its uniqueness. --24.121.127.112 12:35, 1 June 2009 (MDT)

Rating

Power - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because because it's just way to good. You need to remove a couple of things (like, change the 15 feet for nimble strike to something like 20-25 feet in a straight line). It's nothing serious, and can be changed easily (I've done so already on my own for playtesting with friends) --For Valor 00:39, 9 June 2009 (MDT)

Well, the reason this class only has to move 15 feet to get nimble strike bonuses, is so that a character can 'port, take a 5 foot step, then take a full round action with nimble strike bonus damage. This gives the class 'teeth', in a way. It doesn't have the ability to make as many atacks as a fighter would, nor does it get the bonus to damage that a rogue would, but it gets the two lesser versions together, making it average out. → Rith ^(talk) 11:06, 9 June 2009 (MDT)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because I can't tell the difference, and it sounds excellent the way it is. Everything makes sense the way it is written, though less words is always nice. --For Valor 00:39, 9 June 2009 (MDT)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because I also don't know much about this, and found nothing wrong. You even have a picture, and a name for the guy. It's so cute. --For Valor 00:39, 9 June 2009 (MDT)

Flavor - BEAST/5 I give this class a BEAST out of 5 because... well... it's beast. We can call that a five, but I prefer BEAST (unless that means it shows up on the ratings as a 0. Then I'll change it). You can't quantify this kind of originality -- you are a fountain of crafted intelligence. I love it... --For Valor 00:39, 9 June 2009 (MDT)

Jeez, thanks dude, it's awesome to know that my creations are liked that much. → Rith ^(talk) 11:06, 9 June 2009 (MDT)

This rating has been nullified as it is not applicable. --Green Dragon 23:59, 4 May 2011 (MDT)

Rating

Power - 2/5 I give this class a 2 out of 5 because significantly more powerful/versatile with little balancing drawbacks --72.175.237.76 14:06, 19 July 2009 (MDT)

Please justify your statement, otherwise this rating will have to be nullified. → Rith ^(talk) 14:22, 19 July 2009 (MDT)

Agreed. This SERIOUSLY needs justified, as, no offense to Rith, this is likely the weakest class he's written, and I don't see anything on it that would make it more powerful than say a PHB Fighter or Ranger. I definitely throw my voice in for a ratings negation unless it's backed up (which it won't be), and again say that we need a new ratings system. Dragon Child 15:57, 19 July 2009 (MDT)

Nullified Rating, no justification was ever given. → Rith ^(talk) 12:36, 29 July 2009 (MDT)

Wording - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because largely well worded/described --72.175.237.76 14:06, 19 July 2009 (MDT)

What do you have difficulty understanding? Tell me so I might be able to fix it. Otherwise this rating will have to be nullified too. → Rith ^(talk) 14:22, 19 July 2009 (MDT)

Nullified Rating, no justification was ever given. → Rith ^(talk) 12:36, 29 July 2009 (MDT)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because formatting and readability well implemented --72.175.237.76 14:06, 19 July 2009 (MDT)

Suggest null rating? Having removed all the lower ones, keeping the high one just looks bad. No actual reason apart from that though.

Flavor - 2/5 I give this class a 2 out of 5 because class is essentially an attempt to describe someone else's concept resulting in unimaginative super-character. --72.175.237.76 14:06, 19 July 2009 (MDT)

Rating nullified for stupidity, apparently this guy has not even tried to read the above page. → Rith ^(talk) 14:22, 19 July 2009 (MDT)

2,000 Views!

I am amazed, I would never have dreamt that I would have TWO pages that were this popular. → Rith ^(talk) 12:34, 29 July 2009 (MDT)

While it is cool you got 2000 views, googling "Jumper" probably helped :P(That's how I found it) --Ganre 15:45, 29 July 2009 (MDT)

Capstone?

Level 20 looks pretty dull. +1 BAB, +1 good saves, +10 ft. jump. I would rather have pretty much any martial prestige -- which is bad because I just invested 19 levels in this class. --Aarnott 14:40, 29 July 2009 (MDT)

Well, this class's 'Capstone', as it were, was actually meant to be level 19, when you get Alacrity, a beautiful ability. I only put it on 19th level because I felt that having a class that caps before level 20 would be interesting. Though, if you believe that level 20 should be bigger, then I can push Alacrity back to that level without too mush hub-ub. → Rith ^(talk) 14:46, 29 July 2009 (MDT)

Most (newer) classes offer something good for getting to level 20. I would move Alacrity to 20, yes. --Aarnott 18:37, 29 July 2009 (MDT)

Agreed. --Jagadaishio 21:21, 31 July 2009 (MDT)

Okay, well I will get straight on that then. → Rith ^(talk) 16:36, 1 August 2009 (MDT)

Nimble Strike

There are classes that devote many rescources(skill points, levels, ect.)for the CHANCE to deny some one their dex. It's typically at least an opposed roll. This class gets it, no questions asked at level 1. Shouldn't there be some sort of limitation here? --Ganre 20:38, 29 July 2009 (MDT)

Well, the difference here is that it pretty explicitly states that the subject isn't treated as being flat-footed for the purpose of being subject to abilities like sneak attack and sudden strike. Since those are really the main reason for denying a person of their dexterity bonus to AC, I would say that is a pretty big limitation; the only limitation that's really needed. --Jagadaishio 21:17, 31 July 2009 (MDT)

^ What he said ^ → Rith ^(talk) 16:37, 1 August 2009 (MDT)

Still, denying someone their Dodge bonuses to AC is increadibly broken with no check. you have just invalidated any build that does not involve a ton of armor and natural armor. I think if you granted a speed bonus to hit, it would be far more balanced. --Ganre 01:51, 6 August 2009 (MDT)

Thats idiotic, by your logic, making a touch attack that deals 1d8 damage/caster level and sets the opponent on fire is also overpowered. Yet it's something that a level 2 spell does. (before you ask which one, it's Combust, from the Spell Compendium), just going against a lower AC is not in and of itself overpowered, and it doesn't invalidate any other build, as you so rashly stated, considering that an AC build will focus on all kinds of bonuses to AC, not just dodge or dex. Also, generally, in my experience, flat-footed ACs are almost always far higher than touch ACs, making your point take another step towards pointless. → Rith ^(talk) 02:12, 6 August 2009 (MDT)

Well, thanks for answering, but with that sort of response, I'll let you have your cake and eat it too, this is the last input you'll receive from me on anything. --Ganre 23:34, 10 August 2009 (MDT)

That was indeed kind of a lame response there Rithaniel... Keep it civil? Anyway, Comparing an attack your practically going to constantly do vs a spell (combust) is silly imo. Your not going to keep on casting it. And most spells if not all spells are retarded if you compare them to fighting classes. Just because magic missiles always hit doesn't mean my charge should always hit as-well. For your info. magic missile is in PHB.... (See how lame a response it is...) Imo His questions still stands. Ill just ask it in my own version. Why give both effects? Its not needed at all. (edit) first time bothering with a reply --A.D 09:42, 20 November 2009 (MST)

Alacrity

I think that it would make sense if there was a minor progression for alacrity - perhaps an extra move or swift action at some earlier level, becoming the extra standard action at level 20? Just a thought. --Jagadaishio 11:20, 4 August 2009 (MDT)

That's the thing about it though, it'd be unwise for me to do that, considering that, should I give them an extra move action, a jumper could charge in, make an attack, 'port away, and then move again, giving the class that already has extremely good mobility the ability to be even better at getting out of the range of their foes. If I grant an extra swift action, it'd be the same thing, only worse, cause they'd be moving farther, and not provoking AoOs in the process. → Rith ^(talk) 13:37, 4 August 2009 (MDT)

It still seems reasonable to at least give them the extra move action, perhaps at level 12, 14, or 17. Since the standard action that they'll eventually be getting can be used for movement anyway, I hardly see the harm in giving them a move action earlier and converting it to a standard action at level 20. --Jagadaishio 21:24, 4 August 2009 (MDT)

Erm, just wondering, but how can you use a standard action for movement exactly? → Rith ^(talk) 18:06, 5 August 2009 (MDT)

See move action. --Jagadaishio 22:57, 5 August 2009 (MDT)

:/ That is simply strange. perhaps I could add an extra move action ability. I'll turn that ove in my head a bit. → Rith ^(talk) 23:38, 5 August 2009 (MDT)

Jump

I think the save on this ability should include a stat, such as 10+1/2 HD + dex mod, mostly to keep it system consistent. --Ganre 01:54, 6 August 2009 (MDT)

That's reasonable, but I would rather not do so, else the ability could potentially become abuseable. This way it's more of a last ditch effort in a battle. → Rith ^(talk) 02:23, 6 August 2009 (MDT)

I actually agree with Ganre. Everything incorporates some ability score into a save DC, and besides, the things that you should be willing to grapple with should have a fairly high reflex save, while the things with the low saves are too dangerous to grapple. Even then, as long as you incorporate the fact that you must bring along the unwilling creature's equipment as part of your load limit along with their body, there are a lot fewer things that you can even use this on. It would be fine with a higher DC, and actually probably useless without one. --Jagadaishio 09:17, 6 August 2009 (MDT)

Well, that's a very concise and well reasoned arguement, one that seems to have erased my apprehensions about the change. I guess I've been convinced, one edit coming up. → Rith ^(talk) 11:49, 6 August 2009 (MDT)

Rating

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because, though somewhat weak at the start, the sheer amount of damage you will not take, added to the amount of damage you can do just by zipping around the battlefield, this class is absolutely brilliant.--71.158.219.215 16:13, 14 October 2009 (MDT)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it explains what the class can do, and how to use it. --71.158.219.215 16:13, 14 October 2009 (MDT)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because It was well formatted. --71.158.219.215 16:13, 14 October 2009 (MDT)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because I want to use it... --71.158.219.215 16:13, 14 October 2009 (MDT)

Dexterity

I was wondering why this class got such high Flavor ratings. I mean its just like some of Rith's other stuff. Just SPAM Dexterity and you are good to go. I mean Dexterity does do everything right? Armor Class, Initiative, Reflex Save, Opportunity Attacks, Hide and Silent skills, Ranged attacks, and Melee attacks(with Weapon Finesse).

But then I noticed how he skillfully capitalizes on this. His features are carefully selected to offer utility without diversity. This keeps them from becoming over-powered. Very specific conditions which, surprisingly, can actually happen pretty often.

I have seen millions of "I dodge everything" builds. But I like this one. Its not bad. --129.123.246.215 17:44, 14 October 2009 (MDT)

Jump of Doom?

Can you use Jump while falling as to avoid damage per feather fall, if so grapple jump over a cliff and then jump back and enemy dies from fall damage probably--Stryker-Fyre 18:36, 18 November 2009 (MST)

Unlikely, first of all, it's difficult to have a really high Dex(which this character will be (ab)using) and maintain a big enough size category, and high enough str mod to be good at grappling. Second, fall damage caps at 10d6, 55 average damage isn't bad for a full attack, I suppose, but i certainly would classify this as a "neat trick" not a "win button" --Ganre 04:52, 19 November 2009 (MST)

Slightly related, when the person jumps, do they retain prevoius movement and direction? Since your teleport isn't magical, is it different to normal teleports? CJ 22:15, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Rating

Power - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because I found it a bit to overpowered. Which isn't bad. But only if its for personal use. --A.D 09:29, 20 November 2009 (MST)

Wording - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because the constant use of the words immense speed this, that, meh... It just plain irritates me. But Im not quite sure if this is flavor bound. Its personal none the less. --A.D 09:29, 20 November 2009 (MST)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because Its just fine --A.D 09:29, 20 November 2009 (MST)

Flavor - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because Its not really original and well the same reason for the wording part. But I'm not sure if i should swap the score. --A.D 09:29, 20 November 2009 (MST)

Note: First time rate-er

Rating

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it adds something i've never seen before to a basic concept. --Geoffcannon 16:10, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Wording - 4.75/5 I give this class a 4.75 out of 5 because of minor errors and some complexity in the Jumping ability-minor things that can be understood with a bit of effort. the example character could use some editing, too. again, just minor things. --Geoffcannon 16:10, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because i like this class enough to actually use it for a character of my own when i start playing it again. --Geoffcannon 16:10, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because although obviously derived from the movie of the same name, i've never seen it put into a class that actually worked well. --Geoffcannon 16:10, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

Rating

Power - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because the multitude of powerful abilities make it more powerful than it should be, although it is quite more balanced than many other homebrew classes --98.100.198.100 21:54, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Rating

Wording - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because it tries a little too hard, with all the "At which point"s, etc. It sounds a little too puffed up. --70.49.177.16 13:48, 21 February 2011 (MST)

Flavor - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because while its a neat idea, I think it might be a little overpowered. Also, it needs a name that doesn't hearken back to the movie of the same title, where the character has many of the same abilities. --70.49.177.16 13:48, 21 February 2011 (MST)

Rating

Power - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because the class is incredibly fun to play as, however they are sadly overpowered. Jumpers can do as much damage as a rogue, hit as easily as a ranger, and have abilities that just make them a little to powerful. Also, there is a glitch in the character that once you hit 10th lv and higher you can teleport higher in the air than you can fall in 6 seconds allowing you to teleport infinitely upward and eventually sideways. --152.41.2.202 15:51, 2 May 2011 (MDT)

Rating

Power - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --Shadowsteq 04:00, 28 May 2011 (MDT)

Wording - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5 I give this class a <<<4>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --Shadowsteq 04:00, 28 May 2011 (MDT)

Formatting - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5 I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --Shadowsteq 04:00, 28 May 2011 (MDT)

Flavor - <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>>/5 I give this class a <<<Insert Your Rating Here>>> out of 5 because <<<insert why you gave the rating and how to improve it>>> --Shadowsteq 04:00, 28 May 2011 (MDT)

Rating

Power - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<good idea for melee fight>>> --173.245.51.179 14:42, 27 June 2012 (MDT)

Wording - <<<1>>>/5 I give this class a <<<1>>> out of 5 because <<<very bad wording, some sentence doesn't make sense and some sentence are very confusing>>> --173.245.51.179 14:42, 27 June 2012 (MDT)

Formatting - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<like in books>>> --173.245.51.179 14:42, 27 June 2012 (MDT)

Flavor - <<<3>>>/5 I give this class a <<<3>>> out of 5 because <<<it is just another idea with portals and so on.>>> --173.245.51.179 14:42, 27 June 2012 (MDT)

Rating

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because vastly overpowered --68.34.70.62 19:23, 13 September 2012 (MDT)

Wording - 2/5 I give this class a 2 out of 5 because most abilities have flaws such as not mentioning uses per turn or covering many standard scenarios --68.34.70.62 19:23, 13 September 2012 (MDT)

Formatting - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because seems pretty well formatted --68.34.70.62 19:23, 13 September 2012 (MDT)

Flavor - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because its a unoriginal movie adaptation but you did make the effort to write some lore --68.34.70.62 19:23, 13 September 2012 (MDT)

Free jumping?

One problem I have with this class is the complete avoidance of Attack of opportunities. One can just Jump in, Attack, then Jump out. That makes it almost impossible to stay in melee range with a Jumper. Is there any way to counteract being flat footed to a jump (other than uncanny dodge)?

Adjustments to differentiate from Rogue

I really like this class, and the ruleset for Jump seems fair and balanced. However, I felt that the abilities were too similar to that of a rogue. I don't really get the flavor about having a "fast body" and slipping through spatial folds. I brainstormed some ideas to keep with the flavor of a teleporter, while staying balanced and getting away from some of the Rogue's key abilities. These are just suggestions and in no way diminish the meticulous work of Jumper's author.

1) Firstly, They can teleport to any location they can see, instead of any location. No one wants to port into a wine barrel in a palace cellar that wasn't there yesterday. It also still says free action on the page, but swift action appears in the notes and makes sense for balancing. (In response to the Orc attacking me, I port instantly away as a free action).

2) I would replace Evasion with Run. Evasion is a dodge technique, while the Jumper should be more focused on movement and speed, and synergizes with her ability to maneuver around the battlefield, setting up charges. Run is always helpful, but not a game-breaking feat.

3) Uncanny Dodge could be replaced by a Reactive 'Port. While Flat-Footed or struck by an invisible attacker, the Jumper takes the damage but reflexively Jumps away from the source of damage, as determined by GM and as space allows, but not used to fling the Jumper into walls, off cliffs, or into people. This means the attacker will only be allowed a standard attack, instead of a full attack as it has to approach to attack, and could then trigger AoO's. Improved Reactive 'Port means they react even faster, and only take half damage from the attack. The Jumper is a bit tougher than the Rogue, and can 'soak' a hit, while the Rogue has to dodge because of her 1d6 HD.

4) With Nimble Strike already stacking damage, I would like to replace Needle Charge with a Flanking 'Port. The neatest trick for teleporting characters is to jump right into the enemy's blind spot, automatically giving the Jumper and nearby allies Flanking on the enemy, a nifty bonus +2 to hit for her tactical maneuver.

5) Muscle Memory seems kind of ho-hum and situational for an upper level skill. I think what would be more interesting is Mnemonic Recall. 1/day, she can return to any location previously memorized. She can memorize as many locations equal to her Int bonus, minimum of 1. She should spend at least an hour at the location, memorizing every detail, and additional must carry some small object from or associated with that location to serve as the mnemonic device, but also allow her to return by setting it down at her current location. This skill allows for her to maintain a useful base, storeroom, emergency shelter, etc., and once a day means it should be used only deliberately.

That's all, aside from perhaps sliding some abilities up or down to fill in empty levels. Overall, very exciting to play!