Talk:Green Lantern (5e Class)

So, issues:

• Two common saving throws (usually it's one and then an uncommon one)
• Multiple powerful features stacked on with levels where you gain ASI (I mean, really, absorbing an entire spell?? What if it was a disintegrate or even wish? Definitely needs a limit on what it can apply to.)
• So this entire class is built around the ring ... which you start out with... which is a MAGIC item... Which is something NO class should have in first party content?
• How often can you cast the charm person spell? Usually this is restricted via slots.
• So, invisibility doesn't really work like that in DnD. If you say become permanently invisible, that's quite the feat. You get more than just advantage on a check. In that vein, it should be cut down and weakened, because it doesn't have a limit like the invisibility spell does as a spell.
• Unlimited, unconditional advantage in all Intelligence ability checks? That is 5 skills. Needs more parameters, as it is grossly over any interactive feature another class may have.
• Energy projection is very loaded. So you now have unlimited castings of a 1st-level spell (let's assume it stays 1st-level), and some sort of spiritual weapon?
• Environmental Playback is very vague. It sounds like an illusion spell, but those need parameters (how big of a space is the illusion? How long does it last? What action activates it? Etc.)
• How is force field activated?
• Limited Cellular Regeneration does not detail limits of use (and that is a 6th-level spell, which definitely needs reins)
• Electromagnetic Scanner is ill defined. What are the constraints for what I can scan in size? Can I scan an entire castle or national complex? And how does it get changed? Does it melt or something? It should be given a table to detail it, and the scan parameters need to be scaled back if they're going to essentially allow a party access to the entire floor plan.
• 18th level feature is before the 17th
• Time Travel needs a limit on use. Just so you know, 9th-level spells are the final slot, of which every spellcaster normally gets one. Wormhole has the same issue.
  

So, basically, grossly overpowered and in need of fine tuning. I am pretty sure the inspiration can do all this. But restraint is necessary in this game where the source material will probably always be more powerful. Also, consider adding archetypes. If not, slap a design note so people know it has no subclasses.--Yanied (talk) 21:42, 12 December 2019 (MST)

Can you put in the code for the design note? Also, the saves stay. I don't even know what you were talking about anyway. Uncommon? I fixed most of it except the saves and the ring. The ring has no real magic function for the class except being the source of all the abilities. I put it into the items in case someone wanted to put it in their game but not the whole dang class. All in all, I believe that you were mostly right about many of the things you wrote down here, but some things I am just unwilling to change or don't know how to. Thank you for your input, Yanied. Love, Flamestarter (talk) 23:45, 12 December 2019 (MST)Flamestarter

No problem. So, in 5e, there are 3 common saving throws (Dexterity, Wisdom, and Constitution). No class will or should have more than one of those proficiencies as the base. That means they have one of the other three, which are the uncommon kind (Strength, Intelligence, Charisma).

I assumed the ring was the magic item because I think that's the lore (Not a big DC watcher). If not, maybe just say its a regular ring with the insignia?

And, if the level of power on this is mainly going to be unchanged, it could probably use a disclaimer so people know it will heavily throw off the balance of games.

Thanks for understanding.--Yanied (talk) 07:20, 13 December 2019 (MST)

First, thanks for the note on my page. Second, the ring isn't actually magic, it's advanced technology made by the Guardians of the Galaxy (not the Marvel kind) to help police the galaxy through an entire corps of Green Lanterns, Blue Lanterns, Violet, and Indigo. They have enemies such as the Sinestro Corps, the Orange Lanterns and the Red Lanterns. The only reason why I didn't mention those on the page is because they have very similar powers and I didn't think it was important. Plus, you can't make archetypes from that. Flamestarter (talk) 09:52, 13 December 2019 (MST)Flamestarter

That's fine and dandy and all, if you don't have subclasses I guess. But as you said as well, the points about the class' balance are valid. So removing the balance tag on that was uncalled for. It definitely needs something like a disclaimer or even an april fool's tag so people know it isn't balanced material suitable for regular campaigns.--Yanied (talk) 10:19, 13 December 2019 (MST)

I thought I had met all your problems with the class. I put restrictions on a lot of the features that Green Lanterns in the shows and movies can use at will. I gave a disclaimer on the page about the ring. I moved around a problem with the way the page was organized. I met all the problems you listed so unless there is something else, I don't see the problem calling the page complete. Flamestarter (talk) 11:45, 13 December 2019 (MST)Flamestarter

Needs balance doesn't mean it's not complete. It means it isn't balanced by 5e standards.

Mainly not sure how to play with those three features you still get with ASI. Cleric, sorcerer and bard get them for one level and they are minor features. And 8th level has a VERY good feature. Being able to affect a space that big means you can place a ton of creatures under your thrall, compared to the 6th-level spell programmed illusion's 30-foot cube.

Additionally, once you reach 20th, you actually get two castings of a 9th-level spell (Gate and Time Stop), whereas fullcasters get only 1 normally.

The energy twin can be very overpowered if you consider that it can do anything you can do, doubling the range of any of your abilities effectively. It also needs more details, like when it acts, if it has its own initiative, etc. etc.

But yeah, it's a complete base class.--Yanied (talk) 14:04, 13 December 2019 (MST)

"Opinion"

I use quotes because it isn't just my opinion but a community consensus: don't use spell like effects or spells for features. Levels 1-3 are easily summed up for as a wizard/sorcerer. As the class progresses it continually gets these spell features.
You want features to bring a new element to the game. 5e is about options, which getting 4 skills (more than a rogue gets) presents more options. Then there is all unfortunate event you lose thing ring. Who cares if no one can use it because rules say so; I know DMs that will find some incredulous way to use the ring and now your PC can't do squat because every feature relies on this ring.
Green Lantern is part of society, or guild, and uses a magic item for effects, if I recall correctly. Also, I wouldn't get discouraged if a user states a {{needsbalance}} shouldn't have been removed after you've made edits because typically, users don't catch everything the first time. It is also unspoken rule to let the person who placed the template remove the template. (I promise you this doesn't happen but it is a very good thing to keep in mind because it lends to collaboration and less debates/edit wars.) I hope this helps more than radiation poison information did.
Lastly, if you could spend a night reading the 5e Guidelines it would help everyone including you. It will take some time but I think your active users have all read these, and possibly contributed to them at some point. I learned a lot from these, after I started editing. I wish I had known about them sooner. Cheers!   ~BigShotFancyMan   talk   12:47, 13 December 2019 (MST)

BSFM, all of the abilities of the Green Lantern already have spells in official DnD. That's not my fault, but that does mean that I can't just describe what the effect is without getting people saying to me "Hey, there's already a spell for you Invisibility ability" or "Did you know that the Energy Projection is a lot like fire bolt/witch bolt/etc.". And that's irritating. Flamestarter (talk) 13:15, 13 December 2019 (MST)Flamestarter

I mean, take a look at some of the exemplary content and you can see that people have usually thought of ways around just throwing in spells. Like martial classes, or those who lack any spellcasting have really unique stuff sometimes. This class has no spellcasting, but for some reason still gets all these spells. Why not give them more nonmagical features like a different form of shaping space that takes more forms as they level up (that's all I know lanterns do)? I think that's what BSFM is getting at. Correct me if I'm wrong BSFM.--Yanied (talk) 14:04, 13 December 2019 (MST)

There, I rephrased the abilities to keep out spells. There is no magic in this race, but all of the abilities that a Green Lantern is supposed to have in their rings. By the way, this is exactly why I don't do classes. It's too hard to satisfy... anyone with them. Flamestarter (talk) 15:27, 13 December 2019 (MST)Flamestarter

More or less Yanied. I mean, I feel like the article still needs {{needsbalance}} because it was powered down so far it is very underpowered. As mentioned, levels 1-3 are equal to a level 1 wizard except higher hit points.

It is true that it isn't anyone's fault green laterns powers exist as spells, but it is someone's fault for having not developing a creative way to bring them to life in an entire class or using more inspiration than just a ring. Similar to the Wookie race, the race looks to draw no inspiration from star wars other than what they are.There's a YouTube channel, Nerdarchy, that brilliantly brings fictional creations to life using base classes. I'd check them out too.

Finally, classes are a huge undertaking and people can be satisfied by them. WotC has produced a book with 12 that gained love for 11. (Screw that ranger if you know what I mean). There are some featured articles on the wiki. Classes take can take 6-12 months to let the dust settle. I think wotc took at least that long for the artificer (compare their UA artificer release date to the published book including them). What may seem like smothering your flame is only trying to stoke your fire for better content. Reading those guidelines, watching nerdarchy, webDM, official wotc channels are so helpful and again, your active users here are familiar with all these sources. I am not trying to be a jerk, I literally am trying to help you create better articles because it is what I want all users here to do.

Anyway, sorry about the mini rant. I feel like I am repeating myself about some of the best tips for being better at this and not being heard.   ~BigShotFancyMan   talk   18:42, 13 December 2019 (MST)

Welcome to my life, BSFM. And I'm hearing and attempting to follow your advice, but sometimes it's hard to both do that and keep with the nature of whatever it is I'm making, like this class, for example. In addition, the ranger happens to be my brother's favorite class and it is a very good one since... oh, what was it... oh, yeah. My brother got a freaking wolf to be his companion with that class! It was awesome! He called it HARBINGER OF DOOM or Harbies for short. Yes, all caps. In real life, even. Also, no one ever called you a jerk. Flamestarter (talk) 20:25, 13 December 2019 (MST)Flamestarter

Yeah I see what you mean, BigShot. Hmm. Green Lanterns, as I hear about them, are mainly powerful because they kind of just use their imagination. Which is why I suggested the class be built around something like form shaping. It would basically allow you to conjure objects with your willpower, which get more complex and larger as you gain levels. So at low levels, you'd be able to make weapons. Then eventually (idk) you can conjure a house or something (a la Mordy's mansion, but different).

And maybe pair it with some kind of weapon proficiency boosts or whatever to better use the weapons. Not too clear on it, just throwing ideas.

And classes are just about one of the hardest things to write because you have a lot to consider. Adhering to standard a little, balance, formatting, unique features, options, etc, etc. So it can be very frustrating.--Yanied (talk) 22:21, 13 December 2019 (MST)