Talk:Gladiator (5e Class)

We have a fully operational DND style Gladiator sub game/class and etc. This isn't a bad start. However ours is simplified and the instructions and character sheet can fit on one page. It works well in our game and I am not sure if it will suit well here, because the challenges in our games are not tweaked or watered down. I am wondering if we could find a balance between this G class and ours. Do we have permission to list some ideas here? We might be willing to share our custom character sheets as well. Of course we also have custom dice for this game, so maybe we can figure out alternate ways. We also have a semi famous gladiator character with one hell of a good story. No its not dramatic as movies, its more real, we think anyway LOL.

I am questioning here incase this is 'dead'.

G of TierArea (talk) 17:39, 25 April 2016 (MDT)

I'm sure whatever you can come up with will be better than this. Marasmusine (talk) 03:07, 26 April 2016 (MDT)

Continuing the Rewrite

To avoid an edit war, I think we can elaborate the edits here. I don't think Arena Adapt should replace Learn a Trade since I think the class needs some slight lore feature. I also think Grizzled plays well the the class' basic concept of appeal to a crowd better. DO NOT keep changing the equipment because it was designed so you may get your exotic equipment like the net via the background feature. For now, I'll leave this open.--Yanied (talk) 21:20, 9 March 2019 (MST)

Ok, I saw your grizzled comment. It can be renamed instead of redoing the feature altogether. Maybe to something like Corporal appeal or something then.--Yanied (talk) 21:38, 9 March 2019 (MST)

Please use this talk page XAlexander. I mentioned already that the net is available via the background feature. And heavy and two handed are two separate weapon properties, hence their listing.--Yanied (talk) 21:52, 9 March 2019 (MST)

Please note your selection of equipment to start. you have features that are open to net and trident but nothing to support it from the start. also all heavy are considered 2handed by default. just hand out 2handed marshal. why have marshal proficiency if not just given a marshal straight up? dont give the "and/or" option. it has to be one or the other. having 2 marshal weapons through this is overexaggerated (not sure how this talk thing works)

As for battle cry... i feel like it shouldnt require a short or long rest to recover. if you set it to "use on your first turn when initiating battle" the people would have to think what cry would best fit the situation rather than spam cries throughout the fight.

smasher description would be incorrect if a gnome or dwarf took this feature. features that are based on size should only be applied by the race description and not a class feature

I have iterated before that you can get the net via the background. As for the martial proficiency, the base class has it so it can be narrowed down to specific weapon properties like heavy, two handed, ranged, etc. If the wording made you think the class gave two martial weapons, that can be fixed to just say one martial weapon then or specify a weapon with "heavy and two handed property". Initiating battle is also not part of the 5E mechanics as far as I know. Also, it's not spamming it through a fight if it requires a rest to recover. You use it in one combat situation, perhaps out of desperation or initiation as you wish, then you rest and go to the next battle. The Smasher feature does not say based on size. That part is flavor. If it confused you, then it can be edited to be more size-impartial.--Yanied (talk) 22:14, 9 March 2019 (MST)

when i stated initiating battle im referring to the user's first turn of combat. just like any real fight, your first cry is the loudest and most heard, meanwhile any cry after that tends to fall on deaf ears.

weapon of choice sounds terrible name for a feature like this. i get the idea that it insinuates based off the description but it feels like lazy writing. when i put weapon proficiency, it felt like it had more meaning to what was put. it meant you could proficiently work your weapon into a guaranteed hit. the current name just seems like youre gaining another weapon or adding bonus proficiency to, a certain weapon of your chosing,their capabilities.

"body of the arena" isnt really a good feat/name. gladiators are wearing medium to heavy armor which almost completely covers any muscles let alone body. strength and charisma are way too far apart (in aspects of what they represent) to giving str as a substitute for char. i replaced with something that would appear more appealing for someone who decided to take up gladiator this far.

expert strike was changed because d6 is an over exaggeration for a multiplier. its also too OP of a feat even at d4. but hey, i figured if you make it to 18 why not have a small multiplier. d6 just seemed a bit too much.

indomitable. i see you left my level change on that feat. waiting for level 17 is a bit too long.

dauntless should have being feared included, why not have advantage against being intimidated? all this works if you review the definition of daunt.

"learn a trade" doesnt sound like a gladiator type skill. did you read and considered what i had replaced it with? "Arena Adapt Gladiators are adapted to the life of the arena. Some enjoy the fame, others do it for the money, and the unfortunate are enslaved to battle against their own accord. Starting at 2nd level in this class, you gain your choice of skill from the following; Acrobatics, Athletics, Insight, Intimidation, Perception, Performance, Slight of Hand, or Survival. You get double proficiency bonus for any of the selected skills if you have proficiency in it already. You gain another skill and double proficiency at level 7 and level 14 in this class." if you wanted to rework this or tamper with the idea then it'd be more efficient as a gladiator feat than a tool kit/instrument proficiency

Also, what happened to the data for this class prior to all these new edits? this is a complete revamp from what i had originally seen. Noticed very little to no issues with it besides being incomplete

Learn a Trade is partially inspired by swords and sandals, a gladiator game I played. There is also a need for some lore/flavor features so it doesnt solely become a brute class. And yes, I saw Arena Adept. Those skills can actually just be put in the beginning where you choose starting skills, since that portion slipped my mine for a rewrite.

As for the data of the class prior, you can see the edit history on the history tab.--Yanied (talk) 22:54, 9 March 2019 (MST)

But yes, the class is well on its way to being finished. Just the Dimarcheaus needs features and then a few more edits on starting skills and maybe making charisma a focal point in the creation section and the class should be good. Do you have anything else to address?--Yanied (talk) 22:57, 9 March 2019 (MST)

As for the other points brought up previously (sorry it was hard to see it was all one big paragraph rather than fragments), the cry of a gladiator can be used at any point in battle since it is specified that it can be used for not only initiation but also desperation. That is why each of the three cries can be used once before requiring rest. Weapon of choice is the name chosen since when you take the subclass, you are effectively making that choice to specialize. Simply using "proficiency" over and over again on the class page seemed redundant and more like poor writing than adding some prosic flair.

As for Body of the Arena, a gladiator is supposed to be charismatic, hence the background being a variant of the Entertainer. Giving it charisma is no problem since a lot of the cries use it, and this helps differentiate it from other meat head, murder hobo, barbarian classes. I am fine with the change from d6 to d4 for expert strike. You do not have advantage against being intimidated, as that is a check. Fear is all classified under the frightened condition in 5E.--Yanied (talk) 23:05, 9 March 2019 (MST)

So why the feature name "slave"? not all gladiators are slaves against their accord. some actually go out of desperation for a quick coin. some seek fame from combat and other wish to test their mantle. i have nothing against the feat itself but i feel like it could have been named better with a more appropriate description, its not like im offended by the name. coincidentally, i do have a char whom im making a slave to the arena but realize a good number of fighters do fight for more than the gain for a slave owner.

It was sort of taken from the beginning of gladiatorial games like S&S or Gods of Arena where all gladiators usually started off as lesser citizens like slaves. If the name is misleading, again it is up for debate--Yanied (talk) 23:49, 9 March 2019 (MST)

So far, I think we can possibly end the halt on the page with the following points then:

• Add the skills from Arena Adept to starting skill choices and edit equipment maybe
• Possible name changes?
• Returning the class to strength and charisma since the Slave feature helps deal also with constitution saving throws

I took some of your earlier suggestions and applied them to the subclasses so the Dimarchaerus gets an equivalent of Critical fatality as its last subclass feature. Is there anything else you think necessary?--Yanied (talk) 00:01, 10 March 2019 (MST)

I feel Spearman and Reverse End should swap. reading spearman's description feels a lil too OP for a level 3. i know RE would give a higher Dmg output but even for homebrew, +9 to hit a lil over the top.

Bastion should be pushed up to level 10. 37hp(maxed out) and 20AC at level 3 may be a bit too much. (this is considering people find and keep shields during homebrew sessions to stack on their (heavy/medium)armor selection.

Heavy Fists could use a dmg die upgrade from d4s to d6s. fist fighting isnt exactly the most popular method of dmg output, but at least with a name like Heavy Fist a higher die would push it along it's other counterparts.

kinda looking to see how you complete Dimachaerus since its still a bit empty

I should mention spearman is only adding the proficiency to the attack roll, not damage, and it only doubles the proficiency, which at level 3 is +4. It's not expertise. Bastion does not guarantee 20AC but it can be included that you cannot receive the benefit if you are armored, making it like a natural armor feature that works with a shield. The damage die of cestus was meant to mimic unarmed strokes but I am open to increasing the damage die. Dimachaerus only has three features left and I have it ready. Anything else?--Yanied (talk) 09:25, 10 March 2019 (MDT)