Talk:Giant Size (5e Spell)

I love the idea of basically making a creature huge and all the implications that come with it. I have no complaints with the 5th and 6th level versions of this spell, but you might want to increase the damage to 2d8 as this spell is on the lower end of damage a concentration spell can do at 5th level.

On a separate note, I am very worried that PC's can massively abuse this spell past 7th level. Say a PC spell caster cast this spell on another friendly PC at 7th, 8th, or 9th level. Now imagine they try to abuse the rules and use their humongous size to stand on/crush/ect. a creature. What would happen if a 51,200lb (100lb *512) or larger creature attempted to crush another creature? It would probably do in the neighborhood of several d100's damage. Although DM's don't do this, I can see a PC attempting to gain any advantage they can in an encounter. This is why I would recommend the 7th and 9th level versions of this spell is removed and instead replaced with being able to cast this spell on another willing creature within 30ft of you, as in 7th level(2 creatures) and 9th level(3 creatures).

If you have any clue why a PC wouldn't do what I said above, I would be happy to hear a counter argument.--Blobby383b (talk) 11:28, 29 July 2017 (MDT)

The philosophy behind higher-level casting of the spell enlarging the creature further was because the 3.5 version of this spell did that as the caster level increased. The spell deals 2d6 extra damage because I used the Giant Form mystic discipline as a guide. As for why the PCs can't crush a creature with upcastings of the spell, the counterargument is basically "the rules don't allow it." An ancient dragon can't, within the bounds of the rules, sit on a small/medium PC to crush them, so a PC under the effect of a level 7+ Giant Size shouldn't be able to do that either. A DM would have to make a ruling on the fly in order for a player to abuse this spell as you described. Logically, yes, a creature should be able to crush a much smaller creature underfoot, but there aren't any rules for that outside of a specific monster having a crush attack. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs)‎ . . 13:33, 29 July 2017 (MDT)

Understood, but you still might want to scale back the weight increase of the 7th level and 9th level of the spell to say double or quadruple the weight of the 5th level and 7th level respectively because otherwise the weight gets out of hand starting at 7th level. Would you decrease the size increase to say 1.5x the PC's size and only multiple weight by say around 4(rounding up)?--Blobby383b (talk) 13:39, 29 July 2017 (MDT)

The weight increase is the way it is because that's the way the math works out; if you have a 2x2x2 cube, and you double its size in every direction, increasing it to 4x4x4, the volume would octuple – going from 8 to 64. I suppose for our purposes you can reduce it and justify it with "because magic," but I don't really like that. On the other hand, just being able to function at that size does require "because magic" justification; realistically a person that size would be crushed under their own weight. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs)‎ . . 14:09, 29 July 2017 (MDT)

The math is correct, but the size still gets to ridiculous levels. You could potentially make the initial transformation only x2 instead of x4 for x8 weight instead. This would help solve the size problem, but your size would only increase to Huge if you were Medium.--Blobby383b (talk) 14:40, 29 July 2017 (MDT)

The spell allows the size to get to ridiculous levels because the 3.5 spell this is based off of allows a creature to grow to Colossal size at its highest level. — Geodude671 (talk | contribs)‎ . . 14:59, 29 July 2017 (MDT)

Well taking a spell from 3.5 and converting it into a 5e homebrew spell does not mean you need to keep everything the same. If you look at the power levels of other 9th level spells in 5e, making a creature grow to Colossal size seems too powerful. Also according to the 5e SRD:Creatures page there is no Colossal size in 5e, only Gargantuan and larger. I believe the reduced size increase I mentioned before would still make you about 40-50ft(5-6ft) tall on average when cast at 9th level which should be large enough.--Blobby383b (talk) 15:08, 29 July 2017 (MDT)

What if instead of increasing by a number of size categories, I just set the size to Huge, and the higher-level castings to Gargantuan and "larger than Gargantuan?" That would kind of solve the problem of there not being a Colossal size in 5e, but still doesn't address the original problem you had, which was that a character could get ridiculously big. I could just remove the 9th-level effect altogether? — Geodude671 (talk | contribs)‎ . . 15:44, 29 July 2017 (MDT)

That is a good idea, you could make each casting of the spell set to a certain height and weight to solve all these problems. For example, the 5th level version would be set height to 10ft and 800lbs, ect. I would limit the maximum height to around 30-40ft as well if you keep the 9th level version.--Blobby383b (talk) 15:56, 29 July 2017 (MDT)