Talk:Geist (5e Race)

I will be going over each racial feature and why I feel they are balanced/fitting for the race.

Ability Score Increase. Your Intelligence increases by 4, your Wisdom increases by 2, and your Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution decreases by 3. (If you had a previous race you lose the Ability Score Increases of that race.)

This ability score change is desigend to highlight the non-physical nature of geists. The higher than normal boosts to two stats come with sever penaulties to the physical scores which help balance other features.

Age. As a kind of undead, Geists do not have a finite lifespan.

No mecanical relevance, only flavor.

Alignment. Geists tend to retain the alignment they had in their life.

No mecanical relevance, only flavor.

Size. Height: Varies widely Weight: 0-25 lbs. Your size is Medium.

No mecanical relevance, only flavor.

Speed. Your base speed is 30 feet.

Standard.

Levitation. As a Geist, you float rather than walk around. Floating more than 10 feet above a surface is difficult terrain. You also can carry things telepathicly, but are still limited by your Strength score. The range in which you may interact with objects is up to 5ft. and the number of objects you can interact with at a time is equal to your Intelligence Score.

Some mecanical relevance, flavor is priority here.

Incorporeal Movement. Like most spectral undead, physical structures do not impede you. You can move through other creatures and objects as if they were difficult terrain. You takes 5 (1d10) force damage if you ends your turn inside an object.

This is a unique feature of the race

Ethereal. You can have your AC = 10 + your Wisdom modifier. (Does not stack with unarmored defense) You are also immune to nonmagical attacks and poison. You are also immune to being exhausted, frightened, grappled, paralyzed, petrified, poisoned, prone, restrained.

The biggest feature of the class. The condition immunites just make sence for a ghost, as does the poison immunity. As for the immunity to non-magical attacks I am aware this is very powerful

Ethereal Posessions. Almost all of a geist's posessions are ethereal. This is done by the geist bringing it into the ethereal plane in a process that takes 10 minutes. The process can be reversed but will take twice as long.

As an action a geist can enter the Ethereal Plane from the Material Plane, or vice versa. It is visible on the Material Plane while it is in the Border Ethereal, and vice versa, yet it can't affect or be affected by anything on the other plane.

The first part gives the geist a way to have and use equipment, little mecanical relevance, mainly flavor.

The second part is powerful but a standard feature for ghosts.

Darkvision. You have superior vision in dark and dim conditions. You can see in dim light within 60 feet of you as if it were bright light, and in darkness as if it were dim light. You can't discern color in darkness, only shades of gray.

Many races have this and fits flavor.

Undead Nature. As a form of undead you are not healed by healing spells. If you are below half your hit point maximum at the start of your turn, you regain 1 hit point. If you die, you are sent to the astral plane for 24 hours and then return to where you died. Geists don't require air, food, drink, or sleep.

There is a lot to this feature but nothing here is too

Restless. You do not sleep, instead you must haunt the dreams of others for at least 4 hours to gain the benefits of a long rest.

Similar to how elves sleep, but involves going into the dreams of others. Great for flavor

Spooky. Gain Thaumaturgy as a cantrip.

Minor racial feature, mainly for flavor.

Ethereal Sight. A geist can see 60 feet into the Ethereal Plane when it is on the Material Plane, and vice versa.

Little mecanical relevance, mainly flavor.

Languages. You are able to speak, read and write Common and any languages you knew before death.

If you decide what your prior race was this provides a free language and is a standard feature for races.

Feedback

• 4e and 5e removed ability score penalties for PC races so that any race/class combo is viable, and I think that WoTC learned that in general ability penalties do not "balance" bonuses when you usually have one or two dump stats. There are other ways to emphasize their non-physical nature. You could give them a disadvantage on Strength saves. for example.
• I'm not sure how the object interaction works, is this related to the object interaction rules on p. 190?
• Levitation and moving through walls are powerful mobility features that are normally reserved for higher levels.
• Ethereal. You do not need to say it doesn't stack with unarmoured defense, since they are not stackable.
  • Being resistant to a type of attack is trait. Being immune to a type of attack is a major trait. Being immune to all nonmagical attacks is overpowered. Similarly, immunity to one condition is a major trait; immunity to many is overpowered.
• Undead Nature. If I regain 1 hit point every turn, I can't actually die except through instant death effects. Even if I do die, I don't die.
• Is this race ethereal as in the etherealness 7th-level spell? Marasmusine (talk) 04:32, 15 May 2016 (MDT)

Yes playing an undead character goes against my grain on so many levels. I generally hate the undead because of so many misconceptions people have and then spread the crap so much it makes me ill... HOWEVER I do understand and even appreciate your work. Like Marasmusine undead are a bit abusive to the overall campaign unless playing a holloweeny type.

I made my own race some time back that they start off with nothing and as they level they gain more abilities, and the ability to become more flesh. Its like taking all the undead types in dnd and walking them backwards...will o wisp of sorts, to skeleton, to zombie, to etc.

Nah your good, just keep working on it. I personally wouldnt mind you using my idea...for me, that would be easier for me to understand...I am not sure i could play your geist well at first and i would be upset with myself if i couldnt...it would be like insulting you...so yeah....that would make me feel like a total looser.McAlester Gamerz Customer (talk) 20:49, 16 May 2016 (MDT)

Response

• -3 Strenght is now, You have disadvantage on Strength saving throws.
• -3 Dexterity is now, You have disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws.
• -3 Constiution is now, You have 1 less hit point at first level and when you gain a level and roll a hit die, subtract 1 from that roll.
• The increases to Int. and Wis. have been lowered to the normal ammount for races.
• Note about Ethereal not stacking has been removed.
• Immune to non-magical is now resistance and I removed exhausted, frightened, and paralyzed from the immunities.
• The 1 hp per turn if below max and returning after 24 hours is based on the Revenant subrace from the Unearthed Arcana Gothic Heros. I felt this should come with the drawback of being immune to healing spells and the above HP penalty.

The race is a type of ghost. They are ethereal and I don't know how this can be changed if it is too powerful without negitively impacting the race. I added the clause that passing through walls and levitating more than 10 ft. above the ground is difficult terrain. I thought about adding in a clause forbiding Geists from entering locked areas and a note for the DM to say a wall/area has been warded against sprits which does not allow the Geist to pass through. As for immunity to poision and the remaining conditions, a ghost can't be poisoned, grappled, ect. so I feel these are valid for the race.

Okay, it's getting there. Designing an incorporeal race has proved to be difficult (another attempt was made at Ghost (5e Race), balancing it was on my to-do list but it was too troublesome). The consequences of these traits are far-reaching, and sometimes interacts poorly with class choice. My proposed solution in these cases is to have the features spread over some class levels (it could be a race/class combo like I tried at Chimera (5e Class), or just 5 levels like I tried at Alien Grey (5e Race)). Marasmusine (talk) 05:40, 15 May 2016 (MDT)

I think everything is decently balanced at this point. In reguards to Incorporeal Movement, currently the Geist can only move through walls up to 10ft. thick before taking damage and I added the clause preventing Geists from entering locked areas, similar to how a vampire cannot enter a home without permission.

To McAlester, I understand your personal views but d&d is a fantasy and different from real life. I hope you don't mind me removing the personal parts of your response from the discussion; I don't think this is the place to discuss death in terms of real life.

One aspect I'm considering adding is Vulnerability to magic damage. Or at least Radiant, Necrotic, Fire, Thunder, and Acid. I think this might be a vaiable trade for immunity to bludgening, slashing, and piercing to nonmagical weapons.

Another facet to the race I'd like to add is starting off with a indefinite madness that can not be cured. INDEFINITE MADNESS dlOO Flaw 01-08 The character feels compelled to repeat a specific activity over and over, such as washing hands, touching things, praying, or counting coins. 09-16 The character suffers from partial amnesia. The character knows who he or she is and retains racial traits and class features, but doesn't recognize other people or remember anything that happened before the madness took effect. 17-24 "I keep whatever I find." 25-32 "I try to become more like someone else I know-adopting his or her style of dress, mannerisms, and name." 33-40 "I must bend the truth, exaggerate, or outright lie to be interesting to other people." 41-48 "Achieving my goal is the only thing of interest to me, and I'll ignore everything else to pursue it." 49-56 "I find it hard to care about anything that goes on around me." 57-64 "I don't like the way people judge me all the time." 65-72 "I am the smartest, wisest, strongest, fastest, and most beautiful person I know." 73-80 "I am convinced that powerful enemies are hunting me, and their agents are everywhere I go. I am sure they're watching me all the time." 81-88 "There's only one person I can trust. And only I can see this special friend." 89-96 "I can't take anything seriously. The more serious the situation, the funnier I find it." 97-100 "I've discovered that I really like killing people."

Also for reference the DMG has this to say about Condition immunities when creating a monster "A monster can be immune to one or more debilitating conditions, and these immunities have no bearing on its challenge rating. For descriptions of the various conditions, see appendix A of the Player's Handbook. As with damage immunities, condition immunities should be intuitive and logical. For example, it makes sense that a stone golem can't be poisoned, since it's a construct without a nervous system or internal organs." I don't think we should call condition immunities a major trait individually provided they make sense, rather they should be recognized as one major trait. Ones that don't make sense conversly should be counted individually.

You're not making a monster though, this is a player race.

The flaws can be worked into a flaws table (per backgrounds). Marasmusine (talk) 09:52, 16 May 2016 (MDT)