Talk:Gadgeteer (5e Subclass)

Kudos

This page looks good. I like the name, flavor, and mechanics. Seems simple enough to play too. ~ BigShotFancyMan 08:35, 24 May 2019 (MDT)

I'm glad you like it, mate. Always thought rogues deserved a sort of scrappy archetype: kinda like a reverse trap disabler or eccentric inventor. PunnyDM12 (talk) 16:43, 24 May 2019 (MDT)

Heck ya! ~ BigShotFancyMan 21:39, 24 May 2019 (MDT)

Edits

Should we remove the "If the enemy used an arrow, a crossbow bot or similar, your arrow continues its trajectory and functions as a mundane arrow, dealing damage with a successful attack roll. If possible, you can strike your Sneak Attack" part in the 2 spinning ammos? It looks kinda overpowered to me. I'm very cool with allowing to stop a throwable weapon/arrow/crossbow bolt, but dealing damage after having done so is kinda too much in my opinion --Conclave (talk) 01:24, 5 May 2020 (MDT)

I honestly don't care for it as a gadget. Flavor-wise, how would you load an entirely new bolt as a reaction, or are all of your bolts this specific kind? Additionally, it's almost too niche, needing a Dexterity check (and excellent positioning if you're blocking someone else) to even possibly work. And I agree that allowing the sneak attack is a bit much. PunnyDM12 (talk) 15:18, 6 May 2020 (MDT)

That's a good point too. Should we remove those gadget at all? --Conclave (talk) 04:42, 7 May 2020 (MDT)

I'm not opposed to it, but if we do keep them, there shouldn't be one for bolts and one for arrows. Just call it one or the other and have it be an umbrella term for ammunition. PunnyDM12 (talk) 06:29, 7 May 2020 (MDT)

Guess it is better that way. Also, we should remove also the double gadged for arrow and crossbow bolt for net and make that a single ammunition too. --Conclave (talk) 06:33, 7 May 2020 (MDT)

Explosive Bomb looks dope, but shouldn't it deal at least half dmg when enemies succede on saving throw? Conclave

Yes, but they've locked the page because I had some disagreements on certain class features. PunnyDM12 (talk) 23:56, 25 March 2020 (MDT)

And the talk page was never used to discuss those disagreements so I am not sure unlocking the page wouldn't result in more back and forth. Red Leg Leo (talk) 06:51, 1 April 2020 (MDT)

Some edits I think may be cool: Hookshot myst be considered as a one-handed crossbow in term of proficiencies; Infamous Needle and Explosive Bomb should deal dmg equal to their hit dice+Int mod, not int+prof; "Gadgeteer attack modifier= Proficiency Bonus + Intelligence Modifier" should be removed, every gadget should have proficiencies as other already existing weapon; Explosive Bomb should deal half dmg if creatures pass the saving throw; Infamous Needle should be buffed a bit, it is kinda pointless atm; at level 13 maybe you should be able to add Sneak attack to one creature while using explosive bombs. Red Leg Leo may you unlock the thread? --Conclave (talk) 04:24, 2 May 2020 (MDT)

I'm actually playing a level 6 Gadgeteer Rogue in Curse of Sthard and those changes are actually very good. I took Explosive Bomb as gadgeet but I never use it, as if any creature passes the saving throw they take 0 dmg and I've wasted a turn --GabberGaba (talk) 06:39, 2 May 2020 (MDT)

I'll unlock the page. I hope whatever counter-edits were happening won't occur. Good Luck. Red Leg Leo (talk) 10:33, 4 May 2020 (MDT)

Why are some of the gadgets considered two handed? What is that purpose for that? PunnyDM12 (talk) 17:34, 4 May 2020 (MDT)

For two reasons.

1) Flavor: to use a grenade in real life you have to use one hand to take it/throw it, while the other hand is used to "activate" it (like, removing the triggering pin). Also, if those were one handed gadgets, they would not require an activation and they would be kinda "dangerous". As example, let's say that those gadgets are activated by the impact with the ground: if the rogue is knocked prone/falls, the impact would activate all of them and the rogue would kinda blow up.

2) To balance them a bit. Let's make an example: if a level 5 rogue takes Crossbow expert as feat and those gadgets were not 2 handed, he could use his action to use Explosive Bomb he would be able to deal 4d4+Int to a maximum of 4 creatures (as the explosion is basically a 2x2), dealing on average 2.5*4=10 dmg to all the 4 creatures (if they fail the save) so 40 dmg in a round, or 20 dmg if they all pass the saving throw. At that point, the rogue could use his bonus action to hit any creature with his hand-crossbow and deal an additional 16d*Dex+3d6 of sneak attack. And it seems a bit overpowered

--Conclave (talk) 01:02, 5 May 2020 (MDT)

Flavorwise, you could pull a pin with your teeth even as seen in pop culture or have a different mechanism, such as striking a blunt surface (in the case of thrown mortars). I would assume activating it and throwing it would use the same action much like the bombs on pg. 267 of the DMG. Additionally, Crossbow Expert only triggers when you take the Attack action. Throwing an explosive does not require an attack roll nor is it treated as a ranged weapon attack (improvised of otherwise). It's honestly more akin to the Cast a Spell action, like a worse version of fireball. Assuming it did trigger CE though -utilizing rules on pg. 190 of the PHB under "Other Activity on your Turn"- even if it was a two-handed weapon, you could throw your grenade and reposition while simultaneously drawing your crossbow for a sneak attack anyway. PunnyDM12 (talk) 15:46, 6 May 2020 (MDT)

I see. How should they be edited so? --Conclave (talk) 06:50, 10 May 2020 (MDT)

Personally, I'd make 'em one-handed. Additionally, so you aren't getting possibly 8-10 explosive bombs at 3rd level, I'd recommend the amount of gadgets you can craft should only equal your base Int mod instead of twice your Int mod. until perhaps your next archetype feature or the feature after that. Either that or put a capstone on how many explosive bombs you can craft. PunnyDM12 (talk) 10:50, 15 May 2020 (MDT)

Agree on that, maybe it should be Int x1 at level 3, Int x2 at level 9, Int x3 at level 13 and Int x4 at level 17 and add a Cap for any gadget equal to Int. If you agree on those 2 things we should change the page. Also, I'd like to bring another problem: in case of multiclassing Rogue/Fighter, Rogue/Paladin, etc. (any race with Extra Attack), how would those gadget be used? Because they say "as an action you can use x", so it would make Extra Attack drop. Should it be changed to "you can forgo one of your attacks to use x"? --Conclave (talk) 12:05, 15 May 2020 (MDT)

Yeah, I can agree to those two things, though maybe cap it at like, 2x mod because it does refresh on a short or long rest after all. As for the Extra Attack, it may get finicky if you can throw two 7d4+mods. explosive bombs using your Extra Attack. Might have to make it a once per turn ability or have it not affect Extra Attack at all. PunnyDM12 (talk) 00:28, 16 May 2020 (MDT)

I've added the 1x int cap of number of devices from level 3 to level 9 (at level 9 it becomes 2x int, at level 13 3x int, at level 17 4x int). I've also added that you can have a number of devices per type equal to your int and added the part that might allow multiclassing with extra attack class. Probably I made some typo or I wrote that in a not very clear way, so maybe try to watch that. Now, let's talk a bit about Explosive Bomb: is it just me or the elemental modification unlocked at level 13 is a bit OP? Also, about the elemental modification, how is the ice part flavored? Gadgeteer isn't a wizard, I imagine him as a scientist, so I don't get how he can made an explosion of ice --Conclave (talk) 03:23, 22 May 2020 (MDT)

I always thought of it as a substance (alchemical or not) that rapidly cooled when depressurized, much like a fire extinguisher, but they could've picked up some magical inspiration from a local artificer or something if that seems a bit too high-tech. Initially, I was only going to have Lightning modifications (but that seemed a bit too niche) so I added the others for more versatility. I also agree though about the explosive bomb Elemental Mod. Initially, I had the mod only affect traps for a double on base price as the trade-off. Then an edit was made that allowed its use on bombs, but only one bomb at a time for no extra cost. That seemed reasonable; but somewhere down the line, the increase on the cap was made which kinda pushed it too far and made the trade off obsolete. Reducing the cap down to one explosive or removing it entirely, might be ideal, unless you want to change the conditions as well. PunnyDM12 (talk) 12:42, 28 May 2020 (MDT)

Uh from that point of view Ice is pretty cool, you made me change my mind about that. About explosive bomb, I don't know what should be done. If you think they might exist as they have a max. number of 1, I guess they can stay --Conclave (talk) 12:50, 28 May 2020 (MDT)

I reckon they could exist, but honestly even then the trade-off of increased trap price is diminished because you can craft explosives every short or long rest anyway; so there'd be a fair few used in an adventuring day instead of applying the effects to traps, unless you can only make one elemental bomb per long rest instead. Which would almost make it like a "get out of jail" card in a pinch. But I dunno. We could remove it for the time being and deliberate if needed, possibly. PunnyDM12 (talk) 23:43, 28 May 2020 (MDT)

So, I'm playing a oneshot with level 10 PCs and I'm trying to use a rogue-gadgeteer. I've been noticing that, while on low levels it might be a fun class, after level 9 the things it earns are a bit useless/not useful in combat at all. I think that one way to fix it is: beginning at 9th level, you can use every gadget that requires an action as a bonus action. Let me know, if you agree I'd add that.--Conclave (talk) 12:24, 19 October 2020 (MDT)

To avoid being too OP as feature, maybe the use of a gadget as a bonus action can be limited at a number equal the Int modifier every long rest.--Conclave (talk) 03:23, 21 October 2020 (MDT)

I talked with my DM and the other members of the party: they agree with limiting the bonus-action-gadget to a number of times per long rest equal to Int modifier. I'm adding this, if you don't agree feel free to change/edit it. --Conclave (talk) 02:27, 24 October 2020 (MDT)

Sorry. Haven't been on lately, but I can see that working out well. Especially as something reminiscent of the rogue's Cunning Action. Gives a lot of versatility. PunnyDM12 (talk) 00:25, 8 November 2020 (MST)

Hey all, I'm back with a little add, like a new gadget that synergize with smoke bomb and allows to have sight inside the smoke cloud itself. --Conclave (talk) 18:54, 03 January 2024 (MDT)

Locked

I've locked this it appears there is vandalism but I want to review things before making that decision. Red Leg Leo (talk) 07:23, 4 March 2020 (MST)