Talk:Feats and Boons (Shinobi World Supplement)

• Overflowing Chakra should probably increase Con +1 for Con builds like tempered chakra control does for Int builds.
• And maybe clarify whether overflowing stacks with Masterful Chakra Control, which says "When determining the amount of chakra you have, you may add your Intelligence modifier twice" which suggest that it is in addition to whatever you use to determine your chakra. So by current wording, someone with both would have their chakra modifier be =
• [Table + (Con x 2) + (Int x 2)]. Just fyi --GentlestGolemn

I have clarified this and split Overflowing Chakra into two separate feats since I found it odd that Int builds got two feats, but Con builds got something of both in one. The calculation is now [(level x 2) + (Con or Int) + Con + Int + prof] for a lot more investment. I'm still not entirely satisfied on the wording of the heavy special chakra type, which is meant to act similarly to Naruto trying to use Kurama's chakra for the first time, but it's specific enough to only be anti-absorption so its wording doesn't matter all that much.--Ref3rence (talk) 09:52, 11 December 2021 (MST)

• There should maybe be a feat where you could choose another basic chakra nature/affinity. Maybe with a choose any +1 to any stat to accommodate multiple builds? "Shinobi Nature Training"? Just a thought ~~ GentlestGolemn ~~(talk) 23:27, 13 December 2021 (MST)

• Hey, I am a DM, running this homebrew for a couple of months now, and a lot of your most recent changes have made it so that constitution-based builds and feats are the only viable choice. The main contributing factor for this is the fact that now you can not change your chakra casting modifier from intelligence unless you take one of few specific feats. This combined with the text of Overflowing makes it essentially a feat tax and a must pick for any build, because not only can you change your casting mod to Con you can gain a +6 modifier before level 20. My prescription would be to allow for a feat that would allow one to change their casting modifier to any ability score. This way other builds can be allowed to flourish as well as make lesser-used builds such as strength or charisma somewhat viable. :D Jaire --Jaire (talk) 16:39, 10 February 2022 (MST)

I'm not entirely sure what changes you mean, and I'm not sure I follow. How are we getting a +6 Constitution modifier before 20th when the only thing Overflowing Chakra does is increase chakra points and modify saving throws? From my perspective, it isn't that other builds are underpowered, but that Overflowing Chakra is a bit overpowered. As such, it's received a little bit of a nerf (that incidentally fits the flavor way better), and in the future will be adding two feats for each non-Constitution/Intelligence builds.--Ref3rence (talk) 12:44, 12 February 2022 (MST)

I'm sorry the 22 Con is entirely something of my fault that is from an item I had given a player. (Manual of bodily health -_-) Nevertheless I don't think that nerfing overflowing outright necessarily changes much, because that still doesn't create value for other builds. Then again I don't really think overflowing itself should be directly nerfed, because it currently is the only way you can build a great, but not the smartest ninja. I have high hopes for the new feats you are adding though and thank you for responding so expeditiously. :D --Jaire (talk) 20:00, 12 February 2022 (MST)

Thanks again for such specific feedback (and for playing a campaign setting I've been working on for a while). The main reason I nerfed Overflowing Chakra is that if it's a must-pick for any build, it's inherently more powerful than an ASI, when a feat should only be equal to one. Hopefully the new feats offer some much needed variety to play styles.--Ref3rence (talk) 11:22, 13 February 2022 (MST)

• for the Matatabi jinchuriki feat, it should maybe increase the range of all unarmed attacks and touch/non-bukijutsu jutsu. Just a thought. ~~ GentlestGolemn ~~(talk) 16:10, 9 April 2022 (MDT)

Does it not? Your reach increases by 10 feet, which would apply to things with a range of touch.--Ref3rence (talk) 10:36, 11 April 2022 (MDT)

Could masterful chakra contral be like the reverse of the medical path chakra control. It costs int mod less a number of times equal to your cl/4 rounded down (min 1) recovered on short rest. Given that someone on the path of the medic can't use both features on the same jutsu.

I don't see a problem with that, should be on page now.--Ref3rence (talk) 16:29, 19 January 2023 (MST)

So getting them back on long rest instead of short rest makes more sense to me, but then it should probably be the same for medic chakra control.

Body flicker master should make body flicker a bonus action instead. Shisui of the shunshin, could definitely use multi attack.--Azura (talk) 21:08, 19 January 2023 (MST)

That was the original idea, but being able to cast Body Flicker, and then use a jutsu that could be cast an action felt too strong. You can already use multiattack with it, since you're taking the Attack action as a bonus action.--Ref3rence (talk) 16:18, 24 January 2023 (MST)

It feels kind of odd for barrier nin to be a con requirement. It feels more like an int or wis kind of thing. Since it's all about learning the complex sealing arrays and what not. It feels odd that a tough idiot could learn it. I feel like we would be more likely to see a frail scientist using it. Which we kind of do in boruto with that machine that uses jutsu scrolls. Also for EMS, could 2 players just trade mangekyou eyes to get the boon? I always thought it was a little weird that the Uchihas were dumb. They are only immune to genjutsu while their sharingan is active, so hell viewing technique would incite the neccesary emotions to awaken the Mangekyou, so if they had 2 children then everyone in the uchiha would have EMS.

The players would have to be close relatives and survive long enough to both have Mangekyō, and I'd imagine their DM would either ask them not to, or would be fine with ludicrous power gaming. As for why the canonical Uchiha didn't do it, MS itself was seen as almost mythical, with EMS even more so. The only reason Madara and Itachi (and therefore Sasuke) knew was because of the Uchiha Tablet, and it's likely they only knew because Black Zetsu drew them to it in his quest for the Rinnegan. It's simple enough to just assume the greater Uchiha clan didn't even think MS/EMS was real.--Ref3rence (talk) 16:18, 24 January 2023 (MST)

In the current time sure, but back during the warring states era, it wasn't very uncommon to unlock the mangekyou, though ems was still risky, because they didn't have the medical skill to garentee a safe transplantation. It feels like that info would have realistically been passed along for when they were better with medical ninjutsu. I mean Izanami, and Izunagi were both passed on despite being labled Kinjutsu, so why not the secrets of the Mangekyou? Obviously this issue is with Canon and unrelated to you wrok which is excellent, but I already typed it so... here.--Azura (talk) 13:16, 25 January 2023 (MST)

So there are 2 feats that affect all taijutsu, and a genjutsu mastery feat, but no feats for ninjutsu as a whole. Only feats for a couple specific jutsu. If tai, and genjutsu both get a mastery feat I feel like ninjutsu should too. Though what exactly that would entail i'm not sure. Taijutsu has a flat reduction of 3 to all taijutsu min 1, but ninjutsu has a lot more utility, so I don't think that's really fair. Maybe like 1 extra jutsu per level, but the extra can't be tai or genjutsu.

It has been added. I've also modified Taijutsu Expert and Unarmed Combat Adept to better differentiate what they represent.--Ref3rence (talk) 16:26, 26 January 2023 (MST)

Hello there nice to meet you I would like to ask a question about on one the boons in the naruto class, the Boon being Path Mutation. Does this mean you still have follow the level requirement for that feature? Hi79 (talk) 01:00, 14 April 2023‎ (MST)

Since it's a boon, when a player gets it is ultimately up to the DM.--Ref3rence (talk) 12:46, 14 April 2023 (MDT)

You should make a madara clan, since you made a hashirama clan. Maybe Madara can give an additional bonus to the saving throws incurred from mangekyou usuage, or you need half as many levels in susanoo to use the different tiers. i think something like that would be cool —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 2601:98a:500:7f60:b041:8716:a5ae:2e74 (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts.

Hashirama has a clan because implantable paths need a clan to choose at character creation. Madara already has a clan, he's an Uchiha; his uniqueness is in being an exceptional one, not having some sort of unique hiden or mutation. That being said, I've been considering revamping the Indra's Reincarnation boon for a while, and this pushed me to do so, so thank you!--Ref3rence (talk) 16:55, 14 April 2023 (MDT)

I have a question regarding the shadow clone master feat. Do these benefits affect all other shadow clone variants like water style shadow clone or is it limited to normal shadow clones?

It would affect them. Jutsu like Water Style Shadow Clone doesn't make your clone not a shadow clone, it just adds additional affects.--Ref3rence (talk) 09:25, 29 April 2023 (MDT)

It is clear that the intent is for someone with the tsunade clan to pick the path of healer. So why does the tsunade clan give a proficiency in medicine when the path of healer does as well? Would it stack and give expertise? Sugar rush (talk) 17:12, 11 May 2023 (MDT)

I completely forgot Path of the Healer granted Medicine proficiency (probably because it was hidden in its description, where benefits of a subclass shouldn't be). This has been corrected.--Ref3rence (talk) 22:04, 11 May 2023 (MDT)

Sasuke's Rinnegan

So not really a big deal, but Sasuke's Rinnegan manifestation was a bit different than madara's. His rinnegan is always active, but he can activate his sharingan over it. Some call it the shari-rinnegan. also rather than getting all the features of the exalted class I'd say he just gets the path specific jutsu, and 1 rinnegan mastered ability. Also I'd say this version is only attainable with 6 paths power. I'd say with the ruling that you can't get more than 1 rinnegan mastered power, and that you don't get any of the feature benefits make up for getting the jutsu and mastered ability without going through levels. This ones pretty niche, so I'm not too worried about it, but I think the rinnegan with sharingan pupils over it contrasted by a mangekyou looks super badass.--Azura (talk) 17:57, 28 January 2023 (MST)

Sasuke's tomoe Rinnegan is shown being able to use the Deva and Preta paths, so it's likely he still has access to the others and simply doesn't use them. While it's not exactly the same, it might make more sense to make the Rinne Sharingan boon more general to include Sasuke's Rinnegan rather than making a new boon.--Ref3rence (talk) 09:05, 29 January 2023 (MST)

So that's why they would have access to the path of exalted jutsu, even the ones listed under the paths, just not the bonus features, and the inability to take extra rinnegan mastered abilities. That way it's weaker then a dedicated rinnegan or the all powerful rinne-sharingan. It just feels more appropriate to me this way. Rinne-sharingan adds some really powerful bonus's that Sasuke's didn't. Sasuke didn't have to train with his Rinnegan like Madara did, but it also wasn't as powerful. Plus it's not a third eye like the rinne-sharingan, nor is it red. Idk, it just seems different enough to me to justify being a different thing.--Azura (talk) 11:32, 29 January 2023 (MST)

Now I get what you're saying, but I'm still not sure. Mechanically, they'd only be giving up Chakra Detection and a Six Paths Focus, which at the point you're getting that kind of boon might as well be nothing. As for the lore, Sasuke's Rinnegan is definitely more powerful than Madara's. Madara's Rinnegan is routinely shown to be around the same level of amp from EMS as Sage Mode: edo Madara needed his Rinnegan to deal with Sage Naruto after having minimal issues with base Naruto using EMS, EMS alive Madara was equal to base Hashirama while EMS alive Madara with Kurama (who is equal to one-Rinnegan revived Madara, as stated by edo Hashirama, who has additional amps from being modified by Kabuto) was equal to Sage Hashirama. Meanwhile, even if Six Paths Sasuke is equal to Six Paths Naruto in base, his tomoe Rinnegan amp makes him at least equal to SPSM Naruto, if not stronger, which itself is a stronger amp than Kurama Sage Mode.--Ref3rence (talk) 18:11, 29 January 2023 (MST)

Except Sasuke Can have his Rinnegan and ems active at the same time. So yeah his ems plus rinnegan is equal or superior to Madara's just rinnegan. Also it wasn't just the rinnegan that was amping his power, but the power granted for the sage of 6 paths. In terms of rinnegan abilities themselves not counting any other abilities, I'm pretty confident Madara's was stronger. Plus Sasuke only has one rinnegan hence the only one rinnegan mastered ability thing. He def can't cast infinite tsukuyomi, and his rinnegan can't deactivate, which I think proves that it wasn't born naturally, which I think comes with a few other detriments. It doesn't seem to drain his chakra though.--Azura (talk) 21:36, 29 January 2023 (MST)

Two Rinnegan have always been shown to grant a higher increase than two EMS, Sasuke having EMS in his other eye should decrease its effectiveness, not increase it. Obviously Sasuke had more amps than just having his Rinnegan, my point is that Naruto received the same base amp, and yet Rinnegan Sasuke's amp was at least equal to Six Paths Sage Mode, while Madara's Rinnegan amp was only equal to normal Sage Mode. We also haven't established that Madara and Sasuke's Rinnegan had different abilities to begin with, not including their amps (obviously not including Limbo/Amenotejikara), especially when Sasuke uses the Deva Path and Preta Path. Also, Rinnegan Mastered already only grants one ability, losing an eye just makes it weaker (admittedly, not for all of them yet). Nobody's Rinnegan is "born naturally" outside of arguably Hagoromo's, since Madara needed to steal Hashirama's cells, Sasuke needed Hagoromo's chakra, and even the Otsutsuki in Boruto are born with Byakugan and need to consume chakra fruits to obtain the Rinnegan. The Rinnegan also doesn't drain chakra (in fact, Obito implies the opposite when he implants his toward the beginning of the War Arc, believing having the chakra of more than one eye would drive him crazy). As I said earlier, Rinne Sharingan isn't necessarily the best fit, but it's the closest thing that still feels worryingly limited.--Ref3rence (talk) 00:33, 30 January 2023 (MST)

No the reason I said it's a boost is because in one eye he has both active. He has rinnegan and mangekyou active at the same time in the same eye. Madara can't do that, he actively has to switch between them. Sasuke can use both sets of abilities at the same time. Also yes he had to implant Hashirama's cells, but after that it took time for the chakra to slowly make his eyes evolve. In the end his rinnegan didn't fully manifest until very late in his life. Where as Sasuke's was forced to evolve in the span of a few seconds. So Madara's is 'natural' and he can deactivate it whenever he wants, but it would conflict with his sharingan. Sasuke's is 'unnatural' and can't be deactivated so it counts as his base eye, and he can activate sharingan over it. Also yes normal Rinnegan starts with only 1 mastery feat, but their are ways to get more, which I'm saying Sasuke's should not be able to do. He has the rinnegan jutsu, but I wouldn't say he has full mastery of them.--Azura (talk) 06:50, 30 January 2023 (MST)

Sasuke's Rinnegan having EMS active under/over it would still make it stronger than Madara's Sage Mode-level Rinnegan, since EMS Sasuke = KCM1 Naruto < KCSM Naruto < SPSM Naruto =< Rinnegan Sasuke, with their bases effectively being equal at each point. Now I understand your point about "natural" and "unnatural" Rinnegan, though I don't necessarily agree and it ultimately doesn't matter. As for Rinnegan Mastered abilities, Sasuke would have Amenotejikara and at least 1 Rinnegan amp (arguably multiple since Madara should arguably have 1 as well), and his Boruto version would have Kaimon (which is intended to be the space-time ninjutsu Sasuke, Momoshiki, and Isshiki use).--Ref3rence (talk) 13:15, 30 January 2023 (MST)

So you keep referencing the people with the powers, but I'm not talking about Madara vs Sasuke. Purely the effects of their rinnegan. so not counting the 6 paths chakra he gets. not counting his ems on top of it, except for the fact it can be activated over. Honestly don't care much for this one. Just a suggestion. Personally I don't like the rinnegan that much. Both sharingan and byakugan seem cooler to me, really I just like the eyes not matching, but wouldn't want to give up the sharingan powers in an eye. So just a suggestion. it's totally fine if you don't think it's different enough to warrent.--Azura (talk) 15:19, 30 January 2023 (MST)

Rinnegan Chakra Natures

I think since the all basic elemental natures thing is just a standard rinnegan thing it should be added to their 3rd lvl feature, but they have to have affinity to both required elements to take a kekkai genkai. It shouldn't change much since they have so few jutsu that early, and when they really start having a good amount most will be filled up with rinnegan jutsu. So Sasuke wouldn't get that or the extra path bonus, which exalted should be able to take a 2nd one of at 15th level. Since exalted seems pretty underpowered in terms of class features till 20th level. Especially given that most of what the path jutsu can do there are other jutsu that do the same thing or pretty close to.--Azura (talk) 21:36, 29 January 2023 (MST)

I'm making this its own section, because this needs to be said clearly and without confusion. We absolutely are not granting every basic nature at 3rd level. In the chakra feature "Jutsu gained from path features do not count against your jutsu limit", so filling up on Path Unique Jutsu isn't an issue. We don't want every player to be an invisible, flying, liger bomber who can also freely use the massively varied jutsu of the Rinnegan. Sure, there are other jutsu that have similar effects to Rinnegan jutsu, but they're balanced to be somewhat (if not significantly in many cases) weaker than the original and take a chakra nature to get, while Rinnegan user can just pump more Affinity into Path of the Exalted Unique Jutsu, or build up a massive amount of chakra/hit points/movement speed. The Path of the Exalted's feature jutsu already grants crowd control, individual control, high utility, high damage, chakra absorption without needing to spend an entire feat, high healing, a variety of very strong summons, and full on resurrection; it doesn't need effectively unlimited access to every jutsu in the game.--Ref3rence (talk) 00:33, 30 January 2023 (MST)

Admittedly missed the part of the path jutsu not counting, but it feels like it needs some kind of feature bonus at 3rd level. Since byakugan and sharingan both get another bonus on top of the search thing at 3rd lvl. Honestly feel like there isn't much game breaking with having every nature, just let's you chose your damage type mostly. The bonus stuff is all either concentration or under basic ninjutsu anyway. even if it wasn't chakra costs would become real high real fast. It feels like the scribe subclass for wizards. They can change damage with any spell they know to the type of another spell they know. I'd say it's not really game breaking till you have enough chakra to go pheonix mode while in lightning cloak, or spam every different type of dragon. However I can see how that does take away from the characters abilities being unique. So I agree that was a bad idea. Also unless they're implanted the Rinnegan can be activated or deactivated. At 10th level it says you gain a higher chakra count, but doesn't specify what that means or give a value. My point was basically that path of Exalted feels weaker than path of hatred or path of vitality, and you're rewarded for not picking it since their are so many other ways to get all of its powers. I feel like their needs to be some kind of benefit to going through the levels naturally you don't get when you get the Rinnegan Sasuke style. The Rinne-sharingan requiring the ten tails kind of negates the unfairness to me. Since that's such a difficult thing to do. So I either feel like the Otsutsuki clan boon should be changed, and the Exalted path should only be possible through the other methods and not attainable on its own. Or it needs to be buffed. Like Rinne rebirth is cool and all, but it kills you, most of the other skills have a lot of conditions in order to actually work properly, and honestly the thing that's inarguably bettwr than it's competion in other jutsu is the preta path imo. Maybe I'm wrong, but idk I feel like it's weaker than the other major paths. I guess it is sacrifising specialization for gererizing though. You get a ton of free jutsu for the class features, which means you can take more jutsu from other places. Still think 3rd lvl at the very least should be buffed. Especially since it doesn't see through genjutsu.--Azura (talk) 07:35, 30 January 2023 (MST)

The "higher chakra count" is just flavor text to explain why you're getting more jutsu the Rinnegan would arguably grant at 3rd level. How are you "rewarded for not picking it since their are so many other ways to get all of its powers"? You have to spend multiple chakra natures to get even half of the Rinnegan's jutsu, when a Rinnegan user could spend those natures on chakra nature alternatives. Not even including Path of the Exalted Affinity, at 7th level, you could just decide to have 30 chakra, 133 hit points, or 75 feet of movement speed with effectively no downsides, since you'd already have high crowd control (especially with Deva Path focus), relatively high damage with safe range, and limited flight, and this only snowballs at higher levels. All of its jutsu's equivalents either deal lower damage, cost more, do less, require similar investment, or all of the above. Not gaining the detection and advantage against genjutsu and Illusion spells is mainly because the Sharingan has an upkeep cost, while it'd be permanent for the Rinnegan, but I will see about buffing the 3rd level feature, since it is a little lacking.--Ref3rence (talk) 13:15, 30 January 2023 (MST)

So what I mean is there are 2 boons that let you get the path of exalted features on top of a path of hatred, or in theory a path of vitality. Now admittedly I'm probably not the best person to be judgeing this, because honestly thought the rinnegan was not as cool as the other 2 even in the show. The only cool part was when they introduced the extra ability. So probably not the best person to balance the rinnegan.--Azura (talk) 15:32, 30 January 2023 (MST)

Dojutsu Tomoe

I have reworked the recently added Dojutsu Tomoe boon into Tomoe Rinnegan for the following reasons.

• To my knowledge, only path features grant dojutsu, not feats.
• The boon is worded like it grants a second dojutsu to the same eye in the same vein as Rinnegan Manifestation or Tensei Byakugan, but does not such thing.
• Boon was clearly meant to be a more general version of Sasuke's Rinnegan, but clear wording was sacrificed to make the mechanics more general, which ended up making it not work at all. A separate version has been added for a Tenseigan version.
• Sasuke's Tomoe, which I presume this was meant to represent, are shown disappearing when he runs low on chakra.

Additionally, since we have 6 dojutsu paths, I've been debating adding a similar boon tree that allows a Ketsuryugan to evolve into a Haraigan, which itself I've been considering adding >20th level features for based around the Senrigan, but I'd prefer some feedback on that before I actually do it.--Ref3rence (talk) 14:49, 21 March 2023 (MDT)

Clan Questions

Is it at all possible that a Mu clan can be made? Also a question more pertaining to a boon/feat, Mu's body was definitely more unique than anyone else's in the whole ninja world. Would it be possible to make a boon to allow a shinobi to mutate (or something else) to gain the advantages (and disadvantages) of having Mu's genetic makeup? THESNAKEOFHELL (talk) 23:26, 4 July 2024 (MDT)