Talk:Dragon Ryder, Variant (5e Class)

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First, let me thank the many users/creators/editors that have created, edited, and improved the dragon rider and variant. You have inspired a player in my group to play as a dragon rider, but as nobody else has dragons to fly around with, I have attempted to cross the two and tone things down a bit while keeping with the flavor and style. This class includes a couple of ideas that I will likely flesh out as entirely new classes, but for our purposes, this is workable.--Zibby (talk) 14:59, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

In other news, I seem to have broken the table and cannot get it to work right. if anyone knows what I have done and would like to fix it, please, have at.--Zibby (talk) 15:42, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

All set to play test, folks. Apparently google docs does not play well with tables.--Zibby (talk) 15:59, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

I know you've limited the multiattack, but those dragons are still going to dominate the game. Marasmusine (talk) 17:05, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Fair to say, hence the warning. Hopefully the use of energy will limit the dragon in dungeons and longer fights though. Also, the player can no longer give the dragon additional energy. If this doesn't solve it, we will continue to rework it.--Zibby (talk) 17:22, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

@SgtLion Thanks for the help, I always put in to many apostrophes and commas.--Zibby (talk) 13:36, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

I have got one question: if the dragon has to spend energy to move, does that mean it can only move 30ft./120ft. every 8 hours at Level 1? Because, all balancing aside, that sounds stupid. Maybe just have flying at a cost? - 02:00, 10 June 2017 (UTC + 2), no account

Design Disclaimer

Right, the disclaimer says "This class has a dragon which is effectively another player character.". If the dragon is effectively another character, then why not make the dragon have the same power as a PC (with its own level progression): then encounters can be prepared properly and XP awarded fairly. The design disclaimer is to help readers understand where the authors has deviated from design standards, it's not to just tack on to overpowered pages. If there's some structure to how it's overpowered, then maybe it's justified, but at present we don't know how this class effects encounter design or how it's fair to overshadow the other players. Marasmusine (talk) 11:01, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

I kept the template because there is a dragon and I can't figure out a way to have the "I cast whatever I want" style of magic, and the dragon, without being more than your average player. This way, they use the same pool of resources, and the DM doesn't have to sit and spend time during combat just figuring out how much a spell costs.

As for the spell casting itself, this is a reliable way for the player to calculate cost, but it does not give them as many spells per day, even if they use energy from their dragon. I will add spellcasting to the warning.--Zibby (talk)

Oh, and I have the full legendary action for the player and the dragon.--Zibby (talk) 11:38, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Any thoughts on whether it would work to simply let the dragon take a single action each turn? Would that be better than using it's energy? (It will still have energy either way, in case it gains spells or the player wants to siphon it off.)--Zibby (talk) 11:58, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Spellcasting explained

At level 20, a full caster can cast 86 spell levels per day. The math for this is simple:


Converting this to energy increases versatility by quite a bit. At 30 energy, this comes out to (roughly) third casting (third casting comes out to 26 spell levels/day by this same math). When you calculate metamagic, they are double dipping into their resource pool, which helps balance, I believe.

Compared to a rogue third caster, this class can specialize in fighting, magic, or different fighting, is a third spell caster, and has a dragon. I feel like it is nearly balanced, but if you calculate the dragon's health and extra actions, that is where things are still off.--Zibby (talk) 13:35, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

Impressive. I've been working on fixing the Dragon Rider class, but you took it and truly did make a lower powered variant (no offense, I like it!). What i am currently working on for the Dragon Rider is a sort of trait system that will hopefully balance the dragons. Also, add a description, it puts in some nice flavor (see mine for an example)! Agrith (talk) 12:14, 5 July 2017 (MDT)

According to what I am reading a level 2 character with this level can cast wish.

You would not have a high enough maximum energy to cast a 9th level spell. Even if you use gems for storage, you would be gaining 3 levels of exhaustion and be at the mercy of your DM. Exhausted. I say try it. You may want to just start rolling a new character first. Zibby (talk)

Just some minor changes for balance. Zibby (talk) 03:16, 24 February 2018 (MST)

If anyone has read the Inheritance Cycle, I would appreciate some help with a description. I am content with this class as it is, but I made it with/for a player in my group without reading the source material. I'm just not sure how to give the description the justice it deserves. Zibby (talk) 06:25, 8 June 2018 (MDT)

if you'd like, I could try making a description. If you like it, you can leave it, if not, I'd write it in one edit, so removing it would be simple. Agrith (talk) 11:55, 8 June 2018 (MDT)
Please, have at it. I would really appreciate it, thank you! Zibby (talk) 15:16, 8 June 2018 (MDT)
How does that look? Agrith (talk) 20:03, 8 June 2018 (MDT)
I love it! Thank you, my friend talked of dragon ryders this way, and you have certainly captured the essence. I couldn't ask for anything better. Thank you! Zibby (talk) 21:03, 8 June 2018 (MDT)

I have updated the dragon's action economy to match the multiple characters variant rule. I believe that this solves all remaining balance issues. Zibby (talk) 21:44, 9 June 2018 (MDT)

Adding cantrips[edit]

Cantrips would make this class a sorcerer with a dragon and excellent fighting capabilities. It isn't even remotely balanced. Also, the dragon can't have normal dragon stat blocks, or this player will overpower everything.Zibby (talk) 04:00, 25 January 2019 (MST)

Not only does an anonymous user keep adding cantrips which unbalances this class, why add as many as a sorcerer? You are adding as many cantrips as you can, not just a couple of them. This class is not intended to be a sorcerer with a dragon. It's magic is intended to run out and be unavailable once used up, (just like a rogue, ranger, or paladin) until you complete a long rest. When your energy is spent, feel free to use your DRAGON or just slay things with your sword. Zibby (talk) 06:17, 26 January 2019 (MST)
Alright, I've compromised. If you take the dragon mage subclass, you get cantrips. This should allow for a magic focused subclass while not breaking the more martial options. Zibby (talk) 06:24, 26 January 2019 (MST)
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