Talk:Devil Apotheosis (3.5e Spell)

Material Components or Bust

First, I want to commend you for your innovative concept with these Devil Lore spells, but as I feel they are not quite up to snuff for any general spellcaster's library (and even some Diabolists, I'm sure), I want to point out that I think you've got quite a bit of retooling to do.
It seems to me that the material components for this spell are pretty well too out of whack to make this a viable spell, at least until epic levels (and even then, the price tag per casting is considerable). Right now, you have listed, along with other minor things, a material component cost of 6561gp. First, that's a lot of change to carry around for any one; weighing in at a little over 131 pounds, this enourmous pile of gold would be difficult for most characters to just take along. Even if kept in a Bag of Holding or similar device, the coins are cumbersome and will require time to remove from their container, and with a duration of 1 round per caster level, time is something a Devil Lore-casting wizard or sorcerer just doesn't have. More than that, however, is the investment per casting of this spell. 6561gp represents a significant portion of a PC's total gold value such that a 17th-level wizard (earliest level the spell is available to wizards) with standard wealth would only be able to cast this spell 26 times before going completely broke (assuming he never spent any money on anything else). A similar 18th level Wizard or Sorcerer would be able to utilize the spell 33 times before becoming penniless. Most combat spells have very cheap (or at least relatively so) material components, or focuses, or do away with many components to begin with.
You should consider changing some or all of the cost to experience points instead, or include some sort of blacklash against the caster like "when the duration of this spell ends, the caster is subjected to the effects of a disintegrate spell as if he had cast it on himself." As it is right now, I wouldn't even consider this spell for a spellcaster unless it could be made permanent or had some sort of inherent contingency. Spells like Time Stop, Power Word: Kill, and Shapechange are far more useful and don't come with insurmountable costs for an ephemeral and minimal benefit. --Rakankou 20:32, 16 July 2007 (MDT)

Good Point :). I knew there was a lot to be done with these, but I figured it would be fun to create the mechanism at least to get some feedback. I made all of the material components cost 3x more gold per level, which seems to be far too much. I will make it a more linear progression. When I finish adding flavor to them, the idea is that you bribe the Arch-Devils with gold in return for powers. --Aarnott 07:03, 17 July 2007 (MDT)

Now it makes much more sense; most high-level characters will have 100gp to spare on them at all times (or will keep some about for these spells), and spellcasters that like the various benefits to be had from these spells can feasibly use them. It's a great concept you have here, and certainly (now) a suitable alternative to spells like War Body for the spellcaster seeking to become a melee-combat juggernaut. The durations are still pretty low, but with the sustaining effects of the other Devil Lore spells and their stacking effects, fights should resolve fairly quickly. --Rakankou 11:29, 17 July 2007 (MDT)

My goal here is to create some neat spell mechanics basically. You can see another one I designed here. As I com up with ideas for related spells I'm going to create mechanics for them. If you want to make any changes to the Devil Lore spells feel free, same goes for the Chain Spells. --Aarnott 11:51, 17 July 2007 (MDT)