Talk:Derro (4e Creature)

Featured Article Nomination

— This article became a featured article! --Green Dragon 12:20, 8 June 2011 (MDT)

I'm nominating this article because it could simply be the best 3.5e to 4e monster conversion I've seen to date, and it deserves to be noticed by all. --Sepsis 17:03, 23 February 2009 (MST)

Comment — The image I have used on this page is from the WotC published book Underdark. While it is my understanding that such use falls well within the fair use clause, I feel that the image page should carry some sort of legal disclaimer denouncing any association with the copyright holder. Is there an already-existing template that I can add to the image page to denote such? --Dracomortis 22:11, 24 February 2009 (MST)

I think they copyright all their images. --Green Dragon 17:32, 6 June 2011 (MDT)

I fixed the image. --Green Dragon 10:15, 7 June 2011 (MDT)

Comment — Didn't the Derro have Leader types called "Savants"? I believe they were Spellcasters (perhaps sorcerers), I need to dig out my 3.5e books again to be sure. Anyway I was wondering if you were going to toss in an Elite Leader type similar to those? --Sepsis 01:53, 18 February 2009 (MST)

I dug out the old MM 3.5e and checked the Derro entry, it says they are least level 5 Sorcerers, and is always accompanied by two "lower-level students". I think you may have it with making them 11th level elite controller (leader). --Sepsis 00:44, 19 February 2009 (MST)

Comment — Also I thought I remembered that Derro's always used poison on their crossbow bolts, and my wife says it was called Greenblood Oil. Again I would need to pull out my 3.5e stuff to be 100% sure, but I thought I would throw it out to you as food for thought. --Sepsis 01:56, 18 February 2009 (MST)

The MM 3.5e entry says Greenblood Oil from page 79 of the DMG 3.5e. I looked it up and it effected Con and had a DC of 13. After looking at page 51 of the DMG 4e I was thinking you might want to use Dark Toxin adding Dazed to the effect along with the ongoing damage (with a save ending both). That should give you Greenblood Oil. W ell anyway it is just a thought. Again I think you hit the level and role for the Venomblade on the head. --Sepsis 00:44, 19 February 2009 (MST)

Comment — I like the idea of the derro lunatic priest of Diirinka. I think that would wrap them up nicely. -- Sepsis 21:53, 19 February 2009 (MST)

Love the LP, they really do round out the Derro perfectly. Add in a general Derro description above the ToC, and then links throughout the entries and then I think this article would be ready for a Featured Article nomination. -- Sepsis 13:04, 23 February 2009 (MST)

Comment — The grammar is sub-par. Their are many many run-on-sentences, and sometimes I have to read it a few times to understand what it is meaning (especially in the opening section). --Green Dragon 15:03, 12 March 2009 (MDT)

There are a large number of complex-compound sentences, but I was only able to find one in the opening that was an explicit run-on sentence. There was also another that was poorly worded; both have been rewritten. I'll be combing through the individual entries over the next day or two to see if there's anything I can reword for clarity. If there's still something you feel needs to be improved upon, let me know and I'll try to reword it. --Dracomortis 21:59, 12 March 2009 (MDT)

All individual entries have been reworded, and the opening description has been revised slightly once again. --Dracomortis 18:48, 13 March 2009 (MDT)

The grammar still had problems of while derro were in groups they were in the same tense. I fixed it. --Green Dragon 17:32, 6 June 2011 (MDT)

Comment — Diirinka should be added to Deities and then have the link changed from the section on the race, to the deity page. --Green Dragon 15:00, 12 March 2009 (MDT)

A separate page has been added for Diirinka. It is currently under construction – I'll let you know when it is complete. --Dracomortis 21:59, 12 March 2009 (MDT)

Entry on Diirinka is now complete. --Dracomortis 22:01, 24 March 2009 (MDT)

Looks good. --Green Dragon 17:32, 6 June 2011 (MDT)

Comment — The Derro society (and Diirinka) presented here seem... abnormal to the SRD Derro, The Slayers Guide to Derro, and elsewhere. Since this is a conversion from revised third edition I would recommend using the already present Derro information as a base. --Green Dragon 10:54, 25 March 2009 (MDT)

Could you elaborate on which items in particular you'd like to see changed? As with most of the more obscure 3.5e races there's a lot of contradicting lore on the derro. The sources I used pegged them as chaotic and unable to control their madness. Others describe them as more militaristic and capable of overcoming their insanity for days or even weeks at a time. I don't have a particular preference to which version of the lore is used, since the core concept is still the same, so I can change whatever it is that anyone feels doesn't quite "fit". --Dracomortis 12:25, 25 March 2009 (MDT)

I gotta agree with Dracomortis, the Wiki entry is full of various contradictions and many times sounds too Duergar-like to be original (bad 3.5e...bad). The SRD Derro is very general (nothing in this version contradicts whats there) and way to 3.5e mechanically to be used as much more then a quick reference to pattern after. And lastly I would never pattern a homebrew update on non-official sources, and while "The Slayer's Guide to Derro" is neat it should have no bearing on this update. I still think this is one of the best conversions this Wiki has seen so far. --Sepsis 16:13, 25 March 2009 (MDT)

Oppose — I changed this comment to an oppose since I cannot agree with the derro societal implementation presented here. --Green Dragon 09:42, 5 May 2009 (MDT)

Green Dragon, I would like to politely ask again that you please specify which parts you don't agree with. I can find nothing in either the SRD or the 3.5e sources Complete Divine, the Monster Manual, and Underdark that contradicts anything written here. Furthermore, The Slayer's Guide to Derro is an unofficial, third-party source that I do not have access to, and it should have no bearing on a conversion of an official race. -- Dracomortis 10:15, 5 May 2009 (MDT)

I think that it doesn't matter. Maybe Dracomortis did change it but who cares. This is his conversion and a lot of things have changed from 3.5e to 4e (mostly for the better). I mean look at the duergar. They use to be evil dwarves who lived way underground and could expand their bodies. Now they're evil devil dwarves with quills for hair. I'd say these new Duergar are better then the old ones. And the same goes for Dracomortis's derro. --Aboleth11 08:23, 19 June 2009 (MDT)

I fixed the contradictions. Some things required no deviancy, that was mostly the problem. --Green Dragon 17:32, 6 June 2011 (MDT)

Support — I like that (like MM2's Duergar) you can use them consistently from mid Heroic tier to mid Paragon tier. --Aboleth11 08:12, 19 June 2009 (MDT)

Support — I made the equipment with poison correct, made the elite derro more powerful (as they should be), made leaders lead and lead with with more deviancy, made scream of madness like how some creatures treat racial powers, added subterfuge options to the venomblade, and put more faces of deviancy onto some of them, including power stealing and overpowering opponents minds, wall designations, and summoning. Looks good to me now. --Green Dragon 23:12, 7 June 2011 (MDT)