Talk:Denizen (3.5e Race)

How is this only a +1 adjustment, some of the stuff here seems so overpowered for just a +1 adjustment, DR 15 is worth at least plus one on its own, not to mention the immortality thing, can someone please review this and find a CR that fits it?

First things first, I said I wasn't done with this, so why are you hassling me now? Secondly this is a semi-joke race, I'm being accurate to the Denizen's origins. If you don't recognize the reference that's not my fault, go read Sequential Art. Thirdly, yea, good luck damaging them, but what is a 10 inch tall shadow with -10 to wisdom going to do to you? If your maniacally evil NPC lich lord is having that much trouble killing/incapacitating a Denizen, he could just trap it in a crate or punt it off a waterfall. The whole point is that they aren't incredibly dangerous, but can come back from just about anything. Almost everything on two legs can out-run them, its not like they can fly. And they're so light you could hit them with a golf club and send them into the next county. They aren't that hard to defeat, so I stand by my +1 adjustment. Oh, and if you must complain about my work, at least have enough courage to sign your post. (Desu 03:44, 23 July 2009 (MDT))

“

but what is a 10 inch tall shadow with -10 to wisdom going to do to you?

”

Be a wizard. --TK-Squared 11:03, 23 July 2009 (MDT)

They can't talk. Any spell with a vocal component fails automatically. And again I'll say it, punt it off a waterfall. (Desu 06:31, 24 July 2009 (MDT))

Nonverbal Spell, Planar Handbook. No need to talk, they could clap their hands, snap their fingers, stomp their feet, etc. If they can make sounds in any way, they'd be able to cast spells. Also, you might want to note that they can't talk in their racial traits and such, since it has mechanical effects on the character. With all that said, perhaps this might be better as a monster entry, rather than one made to be used by PCs? --Ghostwheel 06:34, 24 July 2009 (MDT)

Aside from the fact I've never even heard of that handbook, I'm betting that "Nonverbal Whatever" isn't something you could take at character creation, meaning the character would be completely useless for his or hers first campaign. And as an alternate way to restate my previous post, heave it into a chasm, it weighs less then 1 lb. (Desu 06:58, 24 July 2009 (MDT))

I'm certain you can, it would be standard fare for Buommons or however it's spelled (they can't talk either). Also on the subject of dangerous things, be a factotum. They get spell-like abilities, and sweet Int based skills and powers. -- Eiji 07:02, 24 July 2009 (MDT)

Actually, "Nonverbal Spell" has no prerequisites, so you could take it at 1st level without a problem. Second, you've mentioned yourself how hard they are to hit, and in D&D there's no real "punting" rules--the closest you'll get is Bull's Rush, I think.

You mention them being easy to defeat being the basis for +1 LA, but CR (used by monsters) is a better indicator of how hard something is to defeat. Since it's LA, it appears to be meant to be played as a character. Once that's on the table, how strong would a level 1 wizard denizen be in the hands of a player? Or one of any other class, what with only +1 LA. Getting all the things this race gets would probably make the LA higher than the CR (which it often is).

Also, might wanna add the "April Fools" tag to it so people don't assume it's supposed to be used in an actual game and still be balanced :-) --Ghostwheel 07:04, 24 July 2009 (MDT)

I never said they were hard to hit, I said they were hard to hurt. I'm not done with this race, I was actually considering giving them a minus to AC because they dont really try to dodge. As for the tag, that's a good idea. I have no idea where it is, but I'll try to find it. (Desu 07:13, 24 July 2009 (MDT))

Added it for you, if that's alright :-) Though since it doesn't sound like you mean for players to actually play them, it might still be better as a monster-type entry... --Ghostwheel 07:23, 24 July 2009 (MDT)

Thanks for the coding help. However, I do intend for this to be a playable race, just not in a conventional campaign. For example, my group is starting up an adventure in September with the guiding rule being, "If it's funny enough, it's not too cheap, and you succeed any necessary roles, it works." it's a campaign of comedy (with a semi-serious plot just to keep things interesting). Can I remove the "Questionable Balance" box now?(Desu 07:32, 24 July 2009 (MDT))