Talk:Darkbringer (3.5e Class)
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BAB and Saves
Base attack bonus and saves follow set progressions. BAB follows Poor (+0.5 per level), Medium (+.75 per level) and Full (+1 per level). Saves either work on a Bad (+0 -> +6) or Good (+2 -> +12). The BAB of this class does not follow any of the three, infact it's worse. It gains +0.3 per level nearly! It should be changed to the poor progression. The Bad saves are in order, but the good save should change to +3 at level 2 and then progress from there.
Also, I didn't ask your permission to format. OH WELL. --TK-Squared 07:11, 13 May 2009 (MDT)
I enjoy people like you, at least you have the sarcasm to be an asshole about being an asshole. And, yes again the BAB gets fucked up. Sincerely, --Avlindrel FallenTree 19:07, 13 May 2009 (MDT) P.S. Still going to talk to an admin about it.
Shade Blast -- Huh?
What does it even mean to channel the Darkness spell into a ray? I don't get it. Similarly, Tome of Shadows. How does that even work? It just says "you can construct one" and then goes on to give absolutely zero mechanics for doing so. Surgo 14:08, 14 May 2009 (MDT)
- I would think that the author meant darkness in general and not darkness the spell (although I will fully agree that it is extremely confusing to put the link to the spell there). Mechanics-wise (and this is feedback for the author more than anyone else), it doesn't make any sense for it to be the spell since the shade blast can be used at 1st level and darkness is a second level spell. Additionally, it is was the spell the ray could only be used a certain number of times per day (assuming you had to give up a daily use of darkness for the ray), instead of being usable once per round (seemingly at will, similar to a warlock's eldritch blast). I'm guessing that the latter is the way it's supposed to be. - ThunderGod Cid 16:21, 14 May 2009 (MDT)
- Yeah, it doesn't make sense. The link isn't a link to the spell, but it's italicized in the same way that you would italicize a spell (and not the other reference). Surgo 16:25, 14 May 2009 (MDT)
- The link to the Darkness spell was done by someone else who didn't have my permission to edit, Shade Blast -is- effectively a differing version of the Warlock's Eldritch Blast, though it's powered (As stated) by the Summon Darkness spell that the Darkbringer has. I'll fix the problem here in a moment, thanks for bringing it to my attention! Oh, and in regards to the Tome of Shadows, it's not really an extra mechanic so much as an item to store the "Symbol of" spells, as well as give them a little more spell ability than they have (Because they have fewer spells available.) --Avlindrel FallenTree 17:27, 14 May 2009 (MDT)
- The link to Darkness was there before that person edited the page. Again, I really have no idea what the Tome of Shadows actually does. Is it a spellbook or something? Surgo 17:33, 14 May 2009 (MDT)
- It is, and isn't. It functions more as a portable handful of scrolls. One scroll at 6th, two at 12th, and three at 18th. And, you can effectively use it for Symbol of- spells. --Avlindrel FallenTree 17:58, 14 May 2009 (MDT) P.S. And, as I said with the fix, you could also use it as a trap.
- So how much does it cost to make? How much time does it take to make? How many can you have at once? Etc. Surgo 18:02, 14 May 2009 (MDT)
- There we go, -now- I know what you're getting at. Fixed. --Avlindrel FallenTree 18:41, 14 May 2009 (MDT)
- So how is this Shade Blast supposed to hit anyone? Even at level 20 with Ray Weapon Focus and a Dex Modifier of 4, the highest attack bonus it can get is 15. As you reach higher levels, your enemies will likely be harder to take down. Maybe I'm crazy, but if the Shade Blast is the primary attack of this class, there needs to be something to make it much easier for the attack to hit. Hold Person, Ghoul Touch, etc. can't really cut it against enemies that have even a pretty mediocre will save for a higher level character. Is there anything that could be added to the class that would enhance the attack roll of Shade Blast specifically? Would it be bad to go back to having Shade Blast be a standard action and then give the class the Cleric BAB?--Lemonator44 23:19, 14 August 2009 (MDT)
- The same way Eldritch Blast would. It's modeled right after it, and, you forget, it's a Ray, making it a ranged touch, which ignores everything -but- the DEX bonus of the opponent. --Avlindrel FallenTree 13:18, 15 August 2009 (MDT)
- Shade Blast seems to be missing a range. The amount of damage that the ability does seems excessive. The damage is the same as a fireball spell with no damage cap, just to one target a round, with unlimited uses. I would suggest making the damage progression similar to the progression of an average attack bonus. Also, the Summon Shades ability does not have a duration. <Enialis 12:41, 30 May 2011 (MDT)
- That's really not that much damage. A fighter can do better, and it's not even that great of a class. It's an OK amount damage (maybe), but hardly unreasonable. - TG Cid 14:20, 30 May 2011 (MDT)
- To me it seems like an average of about 100 damage a round is overpowered. Plus, if they aren't in immediate danger they can instead do an average of about 120 damage a round. That is enough to drop a 20th level character in four rounds. <Enialis 14:49, 30 May 2011 (MDT)
Power – 3.5/5 This class seems kind of all over the place so far as power is concerned. On the one hand, the ability to spontaneously cast any spell from your spell list and still gain bonus spells per day as a wizard is strong enough to offset the seemingly undercut normal spells per day. On the other side of it, shade blast seems almost pathetically weak, dealing 5d8 damage at 20th level as a standard action (since it’s not specifically stated, I’m assuming that’s what it is) or 5d10 as a full-round action. That’s not enough damage for level 20, considering I had guessed that shade blast was supposed to be the main source of damage. I suppose I was wrong.
Tome of Shadows seems almost pointless for the purposes of combat unless you could somehow compel the person to open the book magically, in which case you should probably be able to get the drop on them without its use. By the way, death knell doesn’t seem like the best example spell to use in this case, since the creature touched by the caster has to be dying in order to be affected.
Otherwise, Shadow Form and Summon Shade are OK. My main issue is with the shade blast (which I already went over) and Shadow’s Guidance (which is more of an issue with wording than power, so I’ll get to that). I also think that some provision shout be made in this class for being able to see in the dark; your abilities aren’t going to do you much good if you can’t see when you use them.
One more thing: even though TK-Squared already commented on it, I don’t understand the purpose of only having one attack for the BAB, given that even wizards get two at high level. - TG Cid 14:23, 15 July 2009 (MDT)
- Getting better. I'll call it a 4.5 now. The main issue as of now is with the Shade Blast; the rest looks good. Is shade blast supposed to deal 1d6 damage per darkbringer level now? If so, I might suggest making it a standard action, making it so you can use only once per round. I only really suggested the BAB change because that way, if you're ever forced into melee, you won't be hopelessly screwed. When you can choose to either deal 1d6 per level to one target at will or cast spells, I think it's appropriately powered. Vision Through the Darkness is also quite a useful addition, minimizing the potentially glaring weakness of the class (although I don't think there's a See in Darkness spell that I'm aware of). I think just saying that he can see in darkness (magical or normal) as well as he can see in normal light is fine. - TG Cid 19:49, 17 July 2009 (MDT)
- I suggested the Shade Blast change. What's wrong with being able to use it as an attack action, and having it do 1d6 per level? See in Darkness isn't a spell, it's an ability of fiends that works exactly in the way one wants. Surgo 21:39, 17 July 2009 (MDT)
- OK, that makes sense; I was just pointing See In Darkness out because the link didn't go anywhere. As for the Shade Blast, I was just thinking about the warlock's eldritch blast (admittedly underpowered, but only dealing 1d6 per about every two levels instead of id6 per level. Given the low BAB, I'm OK with it as is. - TG Cid 08:42, 18 July 2009 (MDT)
Wording – 4/5 Your wording is clear and concise in most areas, but Shadow’s Guidance seems uncharacteristically poorly worded. If I’m reading it right (and if I’m wrong, by all means correct me), I think it’s supposed to extend the range of a spell beyond the norm so long as the spell’s path is through darkness. After that, it’s mostly just minor things like Shade Touch being used instead of Shade Blast in the Weapon and Armor Proficiency section. - TG Cid 14:23, 15 July 2009 (MDT)
- Better now. Worthy of a 5, I'd say. - TG Cid 19:49, 17 July 2009 (MDT)
Formatting - 4/5 Your formatting is good; while there could be more links (particularly in the middle of the class features), they are certainly not lacking. A lot of people don’t seem to take the time to format their spell list, so good job with that. Other than that, it all looks good except for the fact that there’s no sample NPC (I can sympathize, I never make mine). - TG Cid 14:23, 15 July 2009 (MDT)
- 4.5 for now until sample NPC is up. - TG Cid 19:49, 17 July 2009 (MDT)
Flavor - 4/5 Mostly good. The fluff sections aren't super-amazing, but they’re solid. It piqued my interest well, and the picture is great. - TG Cid 14:23, 15 July 2009 (MDT)
- Thanks alot for the rating, ThunderGod. You've given me some things to look over in regards to this class, and I really appreciate it. With that said, let me do a little work on it, see if I can't bump some of those ratings up a bit, eh? --Avlindrel FallenTree 22:22, 16 July 2009 (MDT)
I would like your permission to post an editted version of this up on the GiantITP forums. --NecroticPunch 10:25, 6 November 2010 (MDT)
Power - <<<1>>>/5 I give this class a <<<1>>> out of 5 because <<<This class is ENTIRELY OP. 20d10 damage is too much>>> --184.108.40.206 07:06, 22 March 2011 (MDT)
Wording - <<<2>>>/5 I give this class a <<<2>>> out of 5 because <<<The creator doesn't know SHIT>>> --220.127.116.11 07:06, 22 March 2011 (MDT)
Flavor - <<<4>>>/5 I give this class a <<<4>>> out of 5 because <<<It is still a good and interesting idea>>> --18.104.22.168 07:06, 22 March 2011 (MDT)
Balance - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it's spell list is balanced and its abilities aren't overpowered --22.214.171.124 17:05, 28 December 2013 (MST)
Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it's easy to understand and compare to other classes. --126.96.36.199 17:05, 28 December 2013 (MST)
Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it's a fresh look on the use of darkness spells --188.8.131.52 17:05, 28 December 2013 (MST)