Talk:Counterattack (5e Feat)

From D&D Wiki

Jump to: navigation, search

Hey there, this is in regards to the homebrew Counterattack feat.

I am new to creation and would like to keep this friendly and civil. Having said that, I can infer that this particular topic has been an issue before.

So I hope I can provide a solid argument, so to speak, so that you'd be more inclined to discuss and work with me. So here it is.

Using Riposte via Martial Adept utilizes the superiority dice system. The great benefit of this feat is adding that roll to your damage. The drawback, however, is that you'll only be able to use this only once per short rest, unless you are a Battle Master Fighter.

Being able to make an opportunity attack at the expense of using a reaction makes it much more attractive.

The amount of times Counterattack can be used is limited to as many reactions a character has per turn.

There is a tradeoff: You give up the damage bonus of the Superiority Dice for sustained usability. It's not an extra attack action to use freely, but a rather situational opportunity attack to be used when a creature misses you in melee combat. There are homebrew feats on here that straight up gives you more damage if the prerequisites are met.

Now let's look at this outside of game mechanics. If you're imagining a character to have attained a certain level of martial prowess, you expect them to be skilled at counterattacking and have it show. So why should they only be able to do that once per day?

I do not think this would be a feat that is overpowered or unbalanced. I am addressing this topic on the basis that you may think this redundant.

Also, please note that I did not create this feat myself, but rather edited this to give structure and clarity to it, as I had seen it in the Incomplete Feat section.

I would really like your thoughts and constructive ideas to make this feasible. Thanks in advance. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sivilay (talkcontribs) . Please sign your posts.

Hallo, fellow wikian! Thank you for setting up the discussion, I really appreciate for that.
Feat is one of the most prominent change in 5th edition. To quote directly from the SRD page, "[a] feat represents a talent or an area of expertise that gives a character special capabilities. It embodies training, experience, and abilities beyond what a class provides." This implies some criteria for feats:
  • A feat should include more than just a piece of mechanical benefits. You may look up in your copy of Player's Handbook to see that some feats are designed solely for roleplaying purposes, which is rather new for those more inclined to 3rd edition and so forth. A feat normally has more than one benefits for a given concept.
  • A feat describes what you are. To quote this wiki's 5e feat design guide: "Try using the name of your feat to end the sentence "I am a ..." or "I am ...". If it sounds awkward, the name isn't right. If you can't think of a name that fits, if often means the concept of your feat needs adjusting (perhaps you're focusing on a mechanic rather than narrative behind the feat)."
Now given these reasons, please allow me to analyze the current version of Counterattack feat:
  • First things first, but "I am a counterattack" doesn't make much sense, does it? Now I do think this is no more than a nitpick, and we can come up with some better (and preferably catchy) name.
  • The current feat has only one feature: When a creature makes a melee weapon attack against you, you can use your reaction to make an opportunity attack against the attacker. While this is pretty interesting and actually useful in game mechanics, it's rather... bland for a feat. 5e feats deserve some more "fluffs."
Here are some of my suggestions: Maybe you can parry the attack, not unlike many monster's Parry feature ("When this dude is targeted by a melee attack, it can use its reaction to gain a +X bonus to its AC for that attack."), or could even deliver the one last "parting gift" upon dropping to 0 hit point from a melee attack. I noticed how the creature's Parry features are not as much limited as the riposte features, maybe you can make a connection between them? I would leave a small link of my own homebrew work as a reference, which coincidentially just did that. tl;dr - parrying is unlimited, but riposte is.
  • I have a pereference to some more "legacy" feature, or, I almost always use what we already have in official works (PHB, DMG, MM, and many supplement that is to come; SRD; and even Unearthed Arcana articles) as a guideline, and assume that unless I see some kind of consensus among fans and gamers, there must be a reason for the official works to have that.
With that in mind, I saw many features that tweak opportunity attacks come in many restrictions. Polearm Master feat, for example, allows you to make opportunity attacks when the creature moves into the reach, but only while wielding some pole-related weapons. Riposte maneuver consumes superiority dice, which is limited in numbers.
This could be personal, but from what I see, I don't think "a hit" doesn't always assume that your character makes only one attack. When you make a successful attack roll, you make one or more attack, one of which made a meaningful hit enough to damage the opponent. It's gameplay versus roleplaying stuff, which could be very complicated, but at least that's what I see.
In my very personal perspective, therefore, an opportunity attack is not something so special, it's just that in a 6-second round, things could be a bit more intense in the story than actual gameplay. Sure, if an opponent would run away from you, you would at least attempt to attack, but attempting an attack and attempting an attack that actually does something meaningful could be different.
Same mention goes to melee attacks. No one would just stand there taking hits, the characters would actually actively try to ward off attacks, even making some attacks in the process. Again, however, making a resistance that makes difference in game mechanics term is completely different.
Okay, that was long. So here are my stances: I, too, do not think the current version is bad or anything, it's just that it is somewhat deviant from what we already have in official works, and even aside from it, it definitely needs more fluffs to meet the standards of 5e feats. If you want this feat to be different from what we already have, you would need to find a way to differentiate, which we can all help. (It's a wiki for a reason, yesno?) I am counting on this page, keep up with good works! --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 21:05, 25 October 2017 (MDT)

Hello again, fellow wikian! I see that you did some rework on this page, way to go! Now the feat looks more in par with 5e feat, reminds me of the Charger feat (adds something awesome in combat). However:

  • Parry AC Bonus. A +4 bonus is huge in 5th edition. For reference: a magic weapon cannot go beyond +3 (very rare), fighter's Archery fighting style grants a +2 bonus at 1st level, and a {{5e}Shield}}'s Armor Class bonus is +2. I suggest +2 is probably better, since not much can add up to the attack roll now in 5th edition. (I remember when I played 3.5rd edition, my sorcerer had like +11 on attack rolls with a crossbow).
  • Dexterity-based? This is probably just pushing my perspective a bit too much, but since this is a combat feature, I thought maybe using either Strength or Dexterity would be more appropriate. You don't exactly be fast to parry, all you need to have is a keen combat sense, not unlike (sorry to mention this again) Battle Master.
Oh, and since this feat gives some lovely features that makes a character differ from others, I suggest scratching out the Ability Score Increase entirely. See other combat features from your copy of Player's Handbook for reference.

Well, other than that... I think you're making a good progress! I can even consult using this feat on my own game, if you ask me. Good to go, keep up with good works! --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 18:00, 29 October 2017 (MDT)

Home of user-generated,
homebrew pages!