Talk:Arcane Savant (3.5e Prestige Class)

I tried to clear up some confusion as to what spell progression is gained at what caster levels. The description was confusing and redundant. I hope I've cleared it up and not made it worse. PS - I love this class! I think I might build into into a character I'm working on right now...this might save me from having to make it a gestalt character! Much love. Comments? --Othtim 17:04, 15 February 2008 (MST)

Epic Levels?

What's the point of taking this character at epic levels? I don't see the point. There's no difference between doing this and multiclassing between sorcerer/wizard. In fact, multiclassing between sorcerer/wizard is a much better choice than taking this class at epic levels, because you'll get the wizard bonus feats, familiar development, etc. You don't gain any cool stuff with this class at epic levels. I'd suggest continuing the 1/2/2 caster progression through epic. I'm going to change it to be so. Comments?--Othtim 17:06, 15 February 2008 (MST)

Hmm. After looking through all the other Theurge-ish classes (eldritch knight, mystic theurge, etc), they all seem to do what you had before...+1 caster level per class level. They do add feats, though. I've changed it up again, what do you think about the new revision? The Epic Arcane Savant now grants a bonus feat once every 5 levels. Fair you think? Eldritch Knight does it once every 4 levels, and Mystic Theurge does it once every 6 levels. I thought 5 would be good. --Othtim 20:34, 15 February 2008 (MST)

Hmm, well, I'd bump it back to every 6th level after 10th, if it is necessary, but furthermore, I'll tell you this. There isn't actually meant to be a point to taking this class past 10th level. The same goes for the Mystic Theurge, the Psychic Theurge, the Eldritch Knight. For the Eldritch Knight, going past 13 or 14 at most is useless, since after that, BAB progression will be epic anyway. Mystic Theurge and Arcane Savant become useless in that after 10th level, their progression hampers. You must realize that this is done purposefully. After 10th level of these Theurgic classes, taking additional levels in the actual base classes will in all likeliness be of much more use. For a Wizard/Cleric becoming a Mystic Theurge, he'll be useless at turning undead after 10 levels of Mystic Theurge and 3 levels of Wizard. Similarly, I'd rather have the Wizard's bonus feats than the Arcane Savant's bonus feats. That was my idea when I made my class the way I made it. I suppose this is basically the same, though. No problem, then. --Sulacu 23:37, 15 February 2008 (MST)

Fair enough. --Othtim 23:55, 15 February 2008 (MST)

Considering the changes you've made to the "Swap Spells" ability, would you consider adding increases to the gestalt spell list through epic levels? --Othtim 10:23, 21 April 2008 (MDT)

What use is that? After Arcane Gestalt both classes share a spell list of the combined size of both their spell lists. Gaining further levels of the two classes that uses the Arcane Savant PrC will add to this spell list. Plus, taking this into epic levels isn't supposed to be worth it. --Sulacu 10:37, 21 April 2008 (MDT)

Frick yeah I keep forgetting that. reading what I wrote a few months ago I realize I already killed this conversation. sorry. --Othtim 10:27, 22 April 2008 (MDT)

Rating

I give this Prestige Class a 7/10 because it mimics other already established theurgic classes like the Mystic Theurge, Psychic Theurge, and Eldritch Knight. I feel this class has great flavour without being overpowering. It offers a slower progession than other theurgic classes (+1/2/2 class levels as opposed to +2 each level) but makes up for it at level 10. The epic progression follows a common standard for epic theurgic progressions. I'm a little bit biased towards this class since I'm using it for a character right now, and I worked it over a little bit. But still. 7/10. :) --Othtim 22:02, 15 February 2008 (MST)

So apparently there's a proper way to rate things. Here's the new rating breakdown:

Rating - 17/20

• Power 5/5: Excellent, well balanced. Follows an already-established pattern for theurgic development.
• Wording 4/5: A few things are not addressed in the article, such as affects of bonus spells from school specialization and how they interact with Improved Spell Capacity. These are minor issues however, and I'm sure other minor issues will develop as things are play-tested. This is fine with me, and is part of a normal dev cycle.
• Formatting 5/5: I'm quite happy with the formatting. The page is well organized and linked.
• Flavor 3/5: Theurgic classes generally lack in flavour. This one is no exception. Some fluff would help. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Othtim (talk • contribs) 23:11, 18 February 2008 (MST). Please sign your posts.

What does 17/20 boil down to as? 8.5?--Sulacu 16:22, 19 February 2008 (MST)

Not proper -- new way (as of today). Old ratings are being ignored. He updated his old one. --Aarnott 16:26, 19 February 2008 (MST)

damnit. so I wasted that five minutes :( *shakes fist at aarnot* --Othtim 16:56, 19 February 2008 (MST)

At least your 17/20 rating is being used. If you want to contribute to the discussion though, just go to Talk:Rating System. --Aarnott 17:07, 19 February 2008 (MST)

Ultimate Magus

This class works wonders with Ultimate Magus from Complete Mage. In two arcane classes (using Ultimate Magus and Arcane Savant) you can get +25/+22 (with two Practiced Spellcaster feats), and an extremely flexible spellbook.

• s1/w0 sor 1
• s1/w1 wiz 1
• s1/w2 wiz 2
• s1/w3 wiz 3
• s2/w3 ultimate magus 1
• s3/w4 ultimate magus 2
• s4/w5 ultimate magus 3
• s5/w5 ultimate magus 4
• s6/w6 ultimate magus 5
• s7/w7 ultimate magus 6
• s8/w7 ultimate magus 7
• s9/w8 ultimate magus 8
• s10/w9 ultimate magus 9
• s11/w10 ultimate magus 10
• s12/w10 arcane savant 1
• s13/w11 arcane savant 2
• s14/w12 arcane savant 3
• s15/w12 arcane savant 4
• s16/w13 arcane savant 5
• s17/w14 arcane savant 6

Fear! --Othtim 17:04, 19 February 2008 (MST)

Let me guess; you're using that dirty Precocious Apprentice trick to skip three sorc levels? xD --Sulacu 19:22, 19 February 2008 (MST)

Dang, I forgot about that one. I guess i'll have to redo the char i'm workign on now >_< --Othtim 19:51, 19 February 2008 (MST)

Also, you only need to be able to cast L1 sor/bard spells to qualify for ultimate magus. You'd use the precocious apprentice trick to make the entry requirements sor 1/wiz 1. yeah, ultimate magus + arcane savant rocks! --Othtim 01:15, 23 February 2008 (MST)

Nifty

Nifty class, i like it. I'm exactly sure where it fits in balance wise, but nonetheless it is an interesting take of hybridizing wizards and sorcerers. -RockJockey 12/4/2014