Talk:Animal Summoner (3.5e Class)

Rating

Power - 3/5 I give this class a 3 out of 5 because this class has incredible spell casting abilities, not to mention being able to use any of the three main spellcasting stats to use its spells. It is also supplemented with numerous special abilities, every good save table, and the druids wild shape ability. --Vrail 05:07, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Wording - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because it is clearly understandable however it seems a bit lacking or not fluent in certain sections. --Vrail 05:07, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because all sections are completed properly and fully. --Vrail 05:07, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Flavor - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because it's an interesting take on a combination between a summoning class mixed with powerful spell casting and druid like culture and abilities. --Vrail 05:07, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

The BAB progression given here is not one listed and should be changed to an avalaible progression for classes. Thanks!--Vrail 05:07, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

Quick Question

They are made out to love animals, however if they truly like animals, why do they send all of the animals neer them to die in combat and stay safely behind them? It seems almost like they really hate animals... --Vrail 21:35, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Class Needs Balancing

Even if this class was intended as an NPC only it is far too powerful.

• Starting at first level with an animal companion and a familiar gives this class too much power later in the game when alternate companions are available and should be reduced to only an animal companion since familiars are more representative of arcane spell casting classes.
• My second suggestion to reduce the power of this class is to eliminate the animalistic power ability. This spell has a duration of 1 minuet per level even when the extend spell feat is applied that is only doubled to 2 minuets per level and it would increase the spell level to 3rd making it a minimum caster level of 5th. Allowing them to have this for 24 hours is the equivalent of giving everyone a +4 boost to whatever main ability score they want.
• Also on third level the eschew materials feat is unnecessary the summon nature's ally / summon monster spells both only use a focus not a material component.
• The extend spell feat should be removed given the extremely narrow spell list with every summon nature's ally spell available this feat will see little use especially since this class is a spontaneous caster requiring a full round action to cast the spell, leaving the character vulnerable.

Simply doubling the duration of all summoning spells would be a better alternative as you do at level 11.

• The scent ability needs to be defined more. Is it an ability given to the summoner or it's animal companion. I believe giving this ability to the animal companion would make more sense.
• Uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge need to be removed they effectively make this character immune to sneak attacks. At 12th level it will take a 16th level rouge to sneak attack the character who would do +8d6 damage 3/4 your hit dice.
• Evasion makes sense but needs to be moved to 12th level and improved evasion needs to be removed. This is simply that a multi-class character could to easily gain this ability without giving anything up.
• Animalistic skill needs to be removed, the average skill of most animals is well below that which the animal summoner could attain on her own.
• Animalistic attack should force the choice of a bite or 2 claw attacks and improved animalistic attack should increase the damage die by one type for the chosen attack.
• Cantrip mastery should be removed and those spells place upon the 0 level spell lists.
• Since this class has no weapon or armor proficiency and giving wild shape at will is far to powerful given the amount of feats that can be taken allowing you to sacrifice a use to gain a benefit. I would suggest looking at the Player's Handbook 2 Alternative class features for the Druid. It has an ability that allows you to change form at will while giving you bonuses to strength and constitution.
• Animal healing is useable to many times per day it should be 1/day
• The spell list needs to be expanded to include a few more useful spells and a definitive attribute needs to be named for spell casting. The default is wisdom for divine casters.

I apologize for picking apart your class so much, I would like to point out that the modes of movement additions and the wings is brilliant. The concept is also excellent. (Zak2000 04:18, 11 July 2010 (UTC))

ummm i dont fell like picking apart your critisism, but yiu're off on al lot of bases. yes this class needs balance, but its because most of it is on the weak side. yes the stuff looks powerful, but its also really weak in all practicality--24.130.25.22 09:14, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Shapeshift

Shapeshift is an alternate class feature I mentioned above I'll try an mention as much as possible without overstepping copyright bounds. It is an ability gained at first level allowing you to shapeshift at will into a chosen predator form gaining a bite attack enhancement to Strength and natural armor and bonus feats as your level improves. At 5th level you gain an aerial form to be used at will with an enhancement to Strength, Reflex saves, and Natural armor with feats as level improves. Eighth level sees a main fighting form the ferocious slayer a bite attack 2 claw attacks +8 to Strength +4 on fort saves +8 to natural armor and a change in size (allowing you attack more targets and threaten a larger area). With improved critical for bite and claw as bonus feats. All of theses enhancements are valid while in the shapeshift form only but you can shift at will. Twelfth level gain further bonuses to strength fortitude and wills saves and an even higher natural armor plus damage reduction. Sixteenth level is the big boy of the bunch allowing you to change into any elemental (as they are part or nature) gain slam attacks a size increase by two +16 to strength which adds to your slam damage a plus 4 on all saves immunity to critical hits and your selected energy type and a +16 to natural armor. You can chooses any elemental each time you shift and gain its energy immunity(very helpful in some situations). Overall I think perhaps changing the elemental to a new beast form would be more of what your looking for rather than just wildshape. This would add tremendous flexibility and power to the class and with an expanded spell list the feat Imbued Summoning allows you to add any 3rd level or lower spell to the creature summoned such as invisibility or haste. Combine this with augment summoning and you can summon an invisible lion with +4 to its Strength and +4 to its Con, given the amount of summoning available this will clearly empower the class. (Zak2000 13:38, 11 July 2010 (UTC))

Rating

Power - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because eventhough it has a healthy list of abilities I do not see anything that would make it close to invincible. A lot of the spells seem strong but if I put it into perspective of my experiance as a DM most of the time the extra time on summoned monsters and a like are a complete waste of effort unless you walk in and out of danger every second of the day. There are a few points where I put my question marks if they are justified:
24 hour stat increase, now that is quite powerfull increase in some stat at no expense, at high level I wouldn't lift my eyebrow for it but at level 3 there I would. How about some steady increase in time per level for such an skill and limit it for X per day where around level 15 or so you can effectively make it permanent?
Then there is the spells per day list that has stronger numbers then any of the spellcasting basic classes, Ok granted that the list is limited, a small army of beasts is still dangerous. I wouldn't complain much about it but some fellow wizard in your party may. As a DM I would certainly allow it.
The save list seems monk like, now that save list actually fits a monk well but for a druid hybrid it seems odd. Then again if it fits your perspective, why not.
I do not completely understand the BaB list, did you mean to indicate that the Animal Summoner gains no extra attacks for high BaB and you gain extra attacks from the animal traits (claw / bite)? I do have a problem with the polymorph / animal shape restoring ALL hitpoints, As a DM I can (as in yes) allow it as a power because you loose the cure spells, but in mechanics it seems just too odd. A bear slashed heavily into his fat by a dragon masacring his HP by 120 points and setting it on fire multiple times while turning back to normal and has no indication of that fight and hapilly walking away from it without a dent is not something I cannot realy justify to other players as a DM unless there's a good reason / story behind it. Like I said power wise its fine because it is limited and you have no heals while preferably wearing some light armor.
Now about that improved uncanny dodge part, I read a review where someone pointed out that you would become immune to sneak attacks.... Now I took out my special book called, players handbook, and I have to say that he is right! He pointed it out well, now what was the problem with it again? Oh yes a rogue cannot practically one-shot you anymore, thank you for pointing out the obvious for the second time!. It is a survival skill, not an attack skill, it does not kill something in one hit, it does not make something easier to hit, no added attack no bluff etc.etc.etc. so why not??? Granted it is a very good survival skill but it doesn't make you god. So thumbs up by me but you did skip the normal uncanny dodge, you little rascall.
I would lose the familliar, thats not druid, not rogue and definitly not monk, it does not fit.(in my eyes that is).
The real reason why I give this class a 4 out of 5, soly based on player and DM knowledge is that it is a little underpowered. Sure summoning big and scary beasts seems awesome, but reality learns it does do good in some specific fights where there is one quality boss or something like that but once the masses start to horde and you cannot mass root, heal, and summon enough monsters to stop it this baby will go down far too fast and run out of spells quickly. I would suggest to place some form of croud control or make it harder for zergs to reach you. --Crashpilot 14:28, 25 February 2011 (MST)

Wording - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because it looks fine nothing fancy --Crashpilot 14:28, 25 February 2011 (MST)

Formatting - 4/5 I give this class a 4 out of 5 because it folows most if not all of the standard formatting creating easy to understand classes. --Crashpilot 14:28, 25 February 2011 (MST)

Flavor - 2/5 I give this class a 2 out of 5 because, good lord you made no attempt at all! --Crashpilot 14:28, 25 February 2011 (MST)

Rating

Power - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<It makes sense its alot to comprehend but if you know how to take advantage of the 12 to 13 animals you'll be able to play at a time you'll realize how destructive this character is>>> --173.245.50.152 11:43, 29 July 2011 (MDT)

Wording - <<<4>>>/5 I give this class a <<<4>>> out of 5 because <<>> --173.245.50.152 11:43, 29 July 2011 (MDT)

Formatting - <<<5>>>/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because <<<Good Job for the most part set it up to fill the guidelines itll be a 6>>> --173.245.50.152 11:43, 29 July 2011 (MDT)

Flavor - <<<3>>>/5 I give this class a <<<3>>> out of 5 because <<>> --173.245.50.152 11:43, 29 July 2011 (MDT)

Rating

Power - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because I thought that it provided a good balance of power to restrictions. --SaturnUndead (talk) 14:35, 6 February 2013 (MST)

Wording - 5/5 I give this class a 5 out of 5 because I felt that the descriptions and explanations could be understood well enough --SaturnUndead (talk) 14:35, 6 February 2013 (MST)

Formatting - 5/5 I give this class a <<<5>>> out of 5 because I thought that the charts, lists, and paragraphs were organized clearly enough. --SaturnUndead (talk) 14:35, 6 February 2013 (MST)

Flavor - 4.5/5 I give this class a 4.5 out of 5 because I didn't see much distinction from druids from an RP perspective, but I'm not sure that there needed to be a lot of difference. --SaturnUndead (talk) 14:35, 6 February 2013 (MST)

P.S. Why doesn't it look like any of our ratings counted yet?