Talk:Alchemist (FMA Supplement)

Partial Revert

While I'm glad other people are using this setting, the recent wave of edits introduced a lot of issues. I was originally going to break these down in an edit description, but ultimately ran out of space so I'm itemizing it here.

• The split ability scores determining Circles (int for range, con for weight, wis for save DC, dex for attack bonus) was put in place mainly because this is the primary class in this setting; with everything being determined by int, it's not just this class that becomes single ability score dependent, but effectively the whole setting.
• The changes to Combat Alchemy doubled the player's potential damage twice, and in a PECR setting I'm skeptical that players should be slinging 20d6 damage (enough to one-shot a 20th level alchemist) every turn.
• Flame and Freezing dealing the same damage is horribly unbalanced given one restrains and the other doesn't.
• The maximum number of items created by Alchemist's Blade, Armor, and Shot are already dictated by the circle's weight just like everything else. Introducing another limitation unnecessarily complicates things.
• Alchemist's Ride requires Alchemist's Cannon due to the increase in complexity and the fact that some vehicles come equipped with weaponry.
• Soul Transfer probably introduced the most problems. 5e doesn't define "physical" ability scores, and granting a player the target's str, dex, and con basically turns them into dump stats if you're starting at anything above 5th level (fully dumpstatting "physical" ability scores and then using Soul Transfer on a basic bruiser effectively grants an extra 24 points of point buy, and this problem only compounds against chimera and homunculi). The limitation on racial traits was put in place to stop rules lawyer-ing regarding stacking racial ASIs and var.human feats, and to stop potential edge cases of using Soul Transfer in a traditional D&D setting to gain cultural traits like Elf Weapon Training.
• While Create Philosopher's Stone dealing damage seems obvious, we never see it cause any physical harm to my knowledge (though obviously its targets experience a great deal of pain), and it would be odd for it to act significantly differently than Become Philosopher's Stone.

--Ref3rence (talk) 09:27, 26 August 2024 (MDT)

This class is unplayable as is. For it to have any level of effectiveness, you need to have 4 Stats AT LEAST 15 or higher. No class in 5e does this. Wizards don't need Dex to hit with a spell, and I'm sorry but Con is not a stat Alchemist's need. You say it's to "make it more like the setting," but Izumi easily has 8 Con and is supposed to be one of the best Alchemist's on the planet. Using Int for Alchemy doesn't mean you won't need other stats either. Strength or Dexterity to use weapons and armor, Con for hit points and Wisdom for Perception and wisdom saving throws. But you don't need to have them all so high that if you walked into a game and said "I rolled these," they wouldn't believe you.

You can't make an effective character as is. And I'm sorry, there are other classes in this setting. Not everyone is an Alchemist, so your logic that this is the "entire setting" completely falls apart. I'm changing it back to Int and if you've got an issue, lock the page.--—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 2600:8801:211:C00:EDEE:CEB0:CD91:1B01 (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts.

Sorry for the delay, I didn't really have time to respond and you seemed a little heated. While I agree that 4 core abilities is a bit extreme, I disagree that it makes it unplayable. Most players would only need to invest in Wis or Dex since both determine whether or not you deal damage, and even at +1 Con (admittedly, I debated between Con and Str for a while, pretty sure I decided on Con so a player can have hit points, and though changing it to Str would make room for Izumi, most of Izumi's power comes from experience and seeing the Truth, not something innate to her), you're dealing 3d6 every action, which is plenty to one-shot low level creatures in the setting and deal significant damage to higher ones (the only one that did need to be high to be effective is Int, but even at +3 you're in the effective range of a pistol). Wizards don't use multiple abilities, but there aren't wizards in this setting and alchemists don't have a Weave to draw from; a big part of my building of this class was to explore the limits of 5e's systems and the ways they can be used to build varied characters.

I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth, the only times I brought up the word setting was in reference to the game setting this page is a part of (Fullmetal Alchemist (5e Campaign Setting)). If we really want to pursue canon accuracy, split abilities would be even more justified with the removal of alchemic stamina, since alchemy draws from natural energies rather than personal stamina, and sole Int would allow slinging 50 feet of 5d6 damage forever. I think that to treat this class as unplayable is to undersell its utility, since depending on user creativity, this could grant flight, huge increases in movement potential, and instant full cover at very low levels. While there are non-alchemist classes, 5e already has problems with martials being less interesting than spellcasters, and this setting narrows all spellcasters into one almost omnipotent class, so unless your DM is chill enough to let you play a homunculus, playing a normal person is going to be a hard sell. With that all being said, I'm going to leave it be for now, but once I get some more time this class might get that stamina overhaul.--Ref3rence (talk) 08:51, 15 September 2024 (MDT)