Talk:Abstraction (5e Race)

A friend and I plan to revise this mess of a race, any pointers aside from the obvious (allvision, huge size, broken scores)? --Loosinit ^{You can add your signatures with four tildes(~). Try it! :)}

From what I see...

• Ability Score Increase. 5th edition somewhat discourages Ability Score Decrease in racial traits, and the total of ASI is almost always +3, one +2 and one +1. There are exceptions, yes, but with good reasons.

• Age. This is personal idea, but immortal race is, rather... boring. Even elf dies of old age in D&D, they just live like 750 years so it doesn't matter anymore.

• Speed. Most races have walking speed of 30 feet, smaller races have 25. Hovering is actually pretty powerful, considering that it allows you to avoid many difficult terrains, lava, pitfalls, caltrops, and even grease spells.

• Truesight No. Just... no. A race with truesight means it cannot be fooled with illusions. It's a major killjoy for crafty DMs.

• Herald of Disaster. This needs rework, no doubt. The OC considers that saving throws equals avoiding damage, but in many other cases, saving throws allow you to avoid non-damage hindrances. I suggest taking some leaves out of hellish rebuke spell or something similar.

• Language. All language is so Mary Sue, Deep Speech may be okay for some reason, and telepathy... I'm not really sure with this. Whatever is the case, I suggest Common and one or two other languages, preferably one.

• Confusing Illusion. No. Round. Counting. If it has to last, it can last for 1 minute or 10 minute, not 2d4-1 rounds. Plus, "random" isn't really defining, it's just saying "Look, I don' want to think too hard, just let your DM think for yourself." The mechanism of illusions is also vague. Perhaps cleric's Trickery Domain may give you some ideas.

• Portalic Energies. Vague as heck. What action do you use? What if the creature is not willing to get teleported?

• Aura of Reflection / Aura of Energy. Force damage is highly discouraged, since it is the most potent damage type in the game. Other than wordings and maybe a bit of less damage, or toggling on/off features, it actually sounds not bad per se.

• Unreflected / Unshaded.

• Size. Medium and Small is within PHB's boundaries, but Large could be problematic. There is a guide for that in the wiki, you can check that.

So that's it for now. Wish you good luck on rework, this buddy deserves better than current state! :) --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 20:30, 21 August 2017 (MDT)

Oh, and there's 5e Race Design Guide in this wiki, this would help you very much. --WeirdoWhoever (talk) 20:31, 21 August 2017 (MDT)

I think this should be balanced enough for play. May need a few tweaks here and there but it's far better than it was. Any minor adjustment immediately necessary

Update/Revisions:

Hello, and thank you for your feedback. I'm Jcor88, and am said buddy that Loosinit is referring to. We took your suggestions into consideration and made new revisions accordingly. Please feel free to provide feedback. I will provide updated thought processes below to each update (for now). --Jcor88 (talk) 19:20, 24 August 2017 (MDT)

Thought behind the revisions:

ASI - Normally races tend to discourage decreases in scores, however, this race provides so much versatility, with powerful traits that require but a short rest to recharge, as well as Herald of Disaster's monstrous ability (esp against the BBEG), that having a decrease in score should help keep its power in check by offering some form of fragility or weakness to potentially exploit.

UPDATE: Decreases removed, Str, Dex, Int, or Wis may be increased by 2 points. This enables casters and non-casters to utilize this race, (8/23/17)

Size: Large is typically unbalanced, so Energy Abstraction has been re-set to Medium.

UPDATE: Both races will be allowed to toggle between medium, and their respective natural size using a free action. (8/23/17)

Speed: Hover can be a nasty ability, as it can bypass traps, hazards, and dificult terrain. To offset this, and to make it a challenge to use Aura of Reflection/Energy, Abstractions speed has been reduced to 25ft.

UPDATE: having a reduced hover speed keeps the naturally large Energy sub-race (which will likely be wielding larger weapons with longer reach) from becoming an unstoppable juggernauts, but still threatening as it can hover. Tactics against this sub-race will likely resort to kiting. (8/23/17)

UPDATE: having a reduced hover speed keeps the naturally small Mirror sub-race (which will likely be a caster or a rogue, perhaps an archer) from becoming TOO elusive, as illusions have many countermeasures, especially considering the mirror sub-race has a reflective surface and casts no reflections (its illusions won't have those traits - an illusionary mirror sub-race won't reflect light from say, a torch, dancing lights, light). (8/23/17)

Aura of Reflection: To provide versatile options for potential classes, DC enables the user to utilize the Dex stat if not a caster, or w/e casting ability modifier ) Unreflected: Since Mirror Abstractions are reflective in surface, any reflective surface it happens to pass would reflect its own reflection back at it, infinitely. (Imagine holding 2 mirrors against each other). (8/23/17)

ASI for Mirror subrace: to compensate for the decrease in score, this subrace promotes casters and/or dextrous races (rogues, mages, archers) by increasing dexterity.

UPDATE: ASI decreases have been removed, Players have free reign in which ASI to increase to tailor make their class. (8/23/17)

Aura of Energy : To provide versatile options for potential classes, DC enables the user to utilize the Str stat if not a tank, or the Con stat.

To promote and reward strategic play, Aura of Energy uses force damage. Let it be noted that the Energy Abstraction race was intended to be used for melee/tank classes, who will hover at a speed of 25 feet. (8/23/17) (Jcor88 (talk) 19:20, 24 August 2017 (MDT)) --Jcor88 (talk) 19:20, 24 August 2017 (MDT)

I am good with the page after the edits. If someone else would like to review it and decide if the issues were addressed, maybe some templates can be removed. ~ BigShotFancyMan (talk) 08:31, 11 December 2018 (MST)

My thoughts for Refinement

The hover ability: I think they need to specify how far off the ground you are, I assume a few inches

Confusing Illusion: I would just change confusing illusion to mirror image once per short long rest, using a certain ability score as spellcasting ability it's a bit different but a lot easier and much better IMO

Amorphous: I would look at oozes in 5e and pretty much just steal from there "The ooze can move through a space as narrow as 1 inch wide without squeezing."

Aura of Energy: needs a notation of what action it takes, action, BA, reaction?

ASI: The ASI's are very spread and you could make pretty much anything with this. Consider giving each of the subraces a +1 to another ability score MoDuckyMo (talk) 14:01, 13 November 2020 (MST)

Thanks for the suggestions ducky. Mirror image was implemented and the hover was cleared up as limited height flying. Amorphous was also taken from an ooze race. Aura of energy actually had an action but it was in the middle of the sentence. As for the ASIs I reduced the stats down but I'm unsure about adding a +1 with what the race already has, along with it being a pure elemental type.--Yanied (talk) 23:55, 13 November 2020 (MST)