Talk:3.5e Epic Spells, Seeds, and Powers

Question

Does anyone else think these should be seperated out into (DnD Epic Spell), and (DnD Epic Spell Seed) categories? Since it looks rather confusing, jumbled up together as it is now. → Rith (talk) 17:34, 14 January 2009 (MST)

I agree, it's kind of a mess. The preload currently has all the epic spell seads and epic spells just use the (DnD Spell) identifier. I think that we could either keep them the same, so they just use one identifier; either (3.5e Spell) or (3.5e Epic Spell). Or I guess we could break the page up into either (3.5e Spell)/(3.5e Spell Seed) or (3.5e Epic Spell)/(3.5e Epic Spell Seed), but in any case arrange the page by category. I, personally, am a fan of changing the identifiers to the (3.5e Epic Spell)/(3.5e Epic Spell Seed) option, then double checking the categories on all the spells, and then making the environment of this page use SMW properties so it turns out something like 3.5e Sorcerer/Wizard Spells. --Green Dragon 02:49, 23 December 2008 (MST)

That was actually what I had in mind, only having it look more like DnD Rules, except with 3 colums, 1 for Epic Spell Seeds, 1 for Epic Spells, and 1 for Epic Powers, what do you think about that idea? Is it doable? → Rith (talk) 17:34, 14 January 2009 (MST)

If we reorganize this page it should make it a lot more usable. Personally I am a fan of using SMW instead of just dpl (then each epic spell, seed, and power can have a description as well as a link). If we use SMW we cannot really have columns though (the page would get to cluttered on small moniters, I would imagine). If we do use SMW we would have to either put an epic seed, spell, or power above the other ones, and that is why you mentioned that columns would be your preferance, right? Although I think that really does not matter, and having descriptions on this page present should over-ride that problem.

I would say the categories on all the epic spells/seeds/powers need to be checked and standardized first, then this page can be split into three areas, each one using a dpl. Next all the identifiers could be standardized, then finially we would be able to change the page into something along the lines of 3.5e Sorcerer/Wizard Spells. Next a SMW description could be added to each epic seed/spell/power. Also, if we want to make this page perfect, ideally we would change the preload into a form and go from their.

If we do all that then this section would be perfect, but even if we go just as far as changing the page into three seperate areas organized in columns (like you mentioned), then it would be a lot more helpful in any case. --Green Dragon 05:38, 4 January 2009 (MST)

Well, when I first was thinking about this change, I was thinking rather simply and trying to keep the page plain looking (that and I didn't really understand SMW format or how to work it), but now that I've taken a look at the source page of 3.5e Sorcerer/Wizard Spells, and worked out a good bit of the language, I'm actually favoring SMW format and splitting the page into three myself, and I also agree that the catergories need to be double-checked, and a common identifier needs to be established (like (3.5e Epic Spell Seed) or (3.5e Epic Power) for a couple of examples), and I'm willing to do these things myself, as you said, rearranging the categories first, then changing the identifier, but before I start, should I add category:3.5e too? → Rith (talk) 17:34, 14 January 2009 (MST)

Please. Ultimatly I imagine that all 3.5e pages will have Category:3.5e present, and then all 4e pages would also have Category:DnD present (because they are also relating to D&D). Anyway, thoughts on using using (3.5e Epic Spell), (3.5e Epic Spell Seed), (3.5e Epic Power) as the standard identifiers? Also, if you would not mind, all the breadcrumbs need to be changed to use a template (something like Template:3.5e Epic Spells, Seeds, and Powers Breadcrumb - that is if this page does not get split up). Also, one should not forget to modernize the preload too (or in the best case scenario make it into a form), because if that does not happen all the new epic spells, seeds, and powers will follow the old format and this page will get very messy and nasty. --Green Dragon 02:37, 5 January 2009 (MST)

Well I'll go ahead and go through and check up the categories in that case, and I think that 3.5e Epic Spell), (3.5e Epic Spell Seed), and (3.5e Epic Power) are perfect for the standard identifiers of these, and I personally think that the page should deffinently be split into thirds, I mean, I don't really see a reason to lump powers and spells together [like wizards of the coast so foolishly did] or spell seeds and spells for that matter, and as for the working on the preloads, an admin is going to have to do that, seeing as they are locked from editting. → Rith (talk) 17:34, 14 January 2009 (MST)

I renamed the page and split it into thirds. When everything on this page changes to use SMW the page will, of course, need to be re-done again. This is just temporary to remove the identifiers. If someone wants to make all the Epic Spells, Seeds, and Powers use a templated breadcrumb that would be awesome. Also, if you want to work on a form or on modernizing the current preload I would be more then happy to unlock it for you (the only reason they are locked is so when a user is submitting content and they forget to change the name they cannot edit that page). --Green Dragon 03:15, 8 January 2009 (MST)

kk, thanks, I'm trying to figure out what the problem is with the SMW format currently though (as a side note, the error message that pops up has changed, it now reads: URL could not be retrieved), and I'll go ahead and make the breadcrumbs since they do need to be made, and as for the preloads, I'd be happy to work on modernizing them, but just one question ahead of time, would you rather just leave them unprotected until I finish up with them, or have a set period of time that they will be unlocked so that I may edit them? Well, I'm off to make a breadcrumb and update a list of pages ':). → Rith (talk) 17:34, 14 January 2009 (MST)

I changed the page a bit (added quotations around the styles). Also - I, personally, think just making the preload into a form would be a better option. However, if you would rather just modernize the preload, let me know and I will unlock it until you are done. Also, as a side note, the breadcrumbs do not need "Template:" in front of the inclusion. --Green Dragon 06:03, 14 January 2009 (MST)

For example. Also, I removed the div class because I am more of a fan of just using bold and italic's (in my opinion no one is going to want to just link to the material component or something like that - so it is fairly pointless). Also, just so you know, I moved the ranged attack link to later in the article so it does not confuse people when they are reading this page. Thoughts on formatting the epic spells like that? Anything you see which could be improved? --Green Dragon 09:54, 14 January 2009 (MST)

kk, I'll remember that you don't need to type up the word "Template" when adding one, and thank you btw, I personally was having difficulty getting the page to format properly. But yes, I think that removing the div class would be fine (though, I am still getting used to wikitext and am not sure entirely what div class does, so I may not be the best judge). Also, on the note of the preload, I'd probably go through, change the categories, get rid of the div class if you think it isn't needed, add the 3e summary box, and generally make it look prettier in general, if those changes are acceptable then I'll usually be on every day, and I ought to see to them once you give me go ahead. On improvements, nothing comes immediately to mind, though I think it would be wise to create a seperate preload for seeds, instead of grouping epic spells and epic spell seeds together as they are now. Well, I'll go through and add 3e summary to the spells as they are now. → Rith (talk) 17:34, 14 January 2009 (MST)

As a note: If you remove the div class you need to change the things like "Material Components" and "Focus" to not use headers. The div classes just make it so headers of a defined depth do not create a page break. For example Apotheosis Chrysalis with div class and Apotheosis Chrysalis without div class. Notice the change on the "Material Components", "Focus", etc. The current revision (without them being headers) [1]. I will unlock the preload some other time (I booked a flight to Cyprus in a few hours, and I do not want to miss it because I am editing D&D Wiki ;)). Also, let me know if you are instead interesting in making the preload into a form. --Green Dragon 01:16, 15 January 2009 (MST)

kk, we'll, I've just finished going through and getting everything formatted properly (I hope), and, in response to your question about making the preload into a form, remember, I'm still relativly new to wikitext, in order to tell you if I'm interested in something, I must first know what it is, and I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "turn the preload into a form". (I apoligize for my lack of knowledge). Also, on a side note, I hope you have fun in Cyprus, I've always wanted to go to the Mediterranean Sea area myself personally, what are you planning on going to see there? → Rith (talk) 12:21, 15 January 2009 (MST)

←Reverted indentation to one colon

Some good form examples are: Form:4e Ritual, Form:DnD Flaw, Form:DnD Trait, and of course Form:DnD Spell (which has drop down menus, selectable options, but it changes the entire spell format - so it has yet to be implemented).

I'm planning on doing a few hikes in the mountains while in Cyprus, going to the Turkish side, going to the beach, seeing all the major towns, and a few other things will pop up which seem interesting, I am sure. To say the least, it is nice and warm here right now (I was just in Prague, so it is a large difference). --Green Dragon 02:36, 17 January 2009 (MST)

Well, just from glancing over the form layout, I think I could make a form for Epic Spells, Seeds, and Powers. I would personally prefer keeping it as a preload, though mainly just for personal preferences (and the wish to not bite off more than I can chew right now). Making the preload into a form would discourage people from adding multiple schools to the spell. It might also restrict other parts of the article that a preload wouldn't; for example, someone may not be able to make an Epic Spell that temporarily adds the paragon template to a creature and also include a seperate section about how the spell affects creatures who already have the paragon template, without the knowledge of how headers work first.

Geez, Prague at this time of year must be freezing, I'd be glad to get somewhere warm myself, out where I am it snowed last night (which it hardly ever does out here), also, thank you for the barnstar, I almost felt like I didn't really derserve one since it was taking me so long, and sorry for taking so long to reply to this, I'm currently going to college full time and am finding that my free time is being restricted more and more. → Rith (talk) 21:00, 18 January 2009 (MST)

Alright, I unlocked 3.5e Epic Spell Preload and 3.5e Epic Power Preload. And I am not totally sure what I think about using a form for complex special ability components, just because there are so many things which may not be able to fit into such a rigid way of adding them. So I agree with you.

Also, I think you deserved the Barnstar. You changed this page from looking like [2] to [3]. That's kinda large. Oh, and let me know when you are done fixing the preloads please. --Green Dragon 05:25, 28 January 2009 (MST)

Okay, I've gone through and modernized them, also, in case you hadn't noticed, I also made a new page: 3.5e Epic Spell Seed Preload, so that the new namespaces wouldn't get overcombersome, also, I rearranged Add New 3.5e Spell or Power so that people could make a seed if they wanted to. If I've left any loose strings sticking out anywhere, please let me know, and I'll go through and tie them down.

Well, thank you again for the barnstar, it does feel kinda nice to recieve one. → Rith (talk) 10:52, 28 January 2009 (MST)

And thank you very much once again for helping. If I notice any loose ends I will fix them as I see them, although I doubt it.. --Green Dragon 13:16, 28 May 2009 (MDT)

Flavor text

Hey everyone, I just added the Ending spell, I just wondering how I can display the spell description text on this page as well. DemonSlayer 11:46, 4 June 2009 (MDT)

Creating your own seed?

How would one go about creating their own epic spell seed? Just take any spell, extrapolate the spellcraft DC by its spell level, and away you go? --Scryer's Eve ^{(talk | contribs)} 18:20, 5 October 2011 (MDT)