SRD Talk:Change Shape

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The ability description says nothing about natural armor bonuses. According to common sense, you would lose your normal natural armor bonus and gain the bonus of your new form, but logic does not always apply to D&D rules :( --Mkill 06:43, 16 July 2007 (MDT)

Change shape is a change in appearance, not property. Most changes are cosmetic. Natural weapons are an exception to that. Any "natural armor" would only look like natural armor. --Dmilewski 07:13, 16 July 2007 (MDT)
That would be alternate form. You'll notice the only real difference between the two abilities is natural armor. Change shape is a cosmetic change; alternate form is a "real" change, where you gain natural armor (and the aquatic subtype, if applicable). 03:53, 19 July 2007 (MDT)
It's hard to explain that you can grow claws, horns and tentacles, but not a leathery skin. In the same way it's strange that a succubus can retain the protection of her thick, leathery, demonic skin while in human form.
The second thing that I don't like is when 2 very similar but slightly different abilities exist, just to make the DM's life difficult.
Well, but that's rules as written, I guess. I hope they manage to simplify the game for 4th ed. --Mkill 04:19, 19 July 2007 (MDT)
You said it, brother. Amen. I've edited the SRD from front to back (literally) and I still miss these little differences. Most of the folks here are good at this game, and we're still continuously confused. But I won't be too hard on WotC. I remember 1e and 2e. 3e is still light-years more playable. --Dmilewski 05:36, 19 July 2007 (MDT)
True. D20 is a pretty good rules system, it's mostly the old AD&D garbage that drags the system (elves detecting secret doors, multiclassing XP penalty, Weapon Specialization only for fighters, yadayada...) --Mkill 05:45, 19 July 2007 (MDT)
If change shape is a change in appearance but not property then would a doppelganger in half elf form not gain the elf bonuses from cloak of elven kind?
Exactly. If a doppleganger put on a dragon costumer, that does not make him a dragon. Think of change shape as a costume. You can get the physical advantages of the form, but you are NOT the form. --Dmilewski 10:27, 12 October 2008 (MDT)
So then if you can gain the physical advantages of the form, can you then breathe water if you change shape into say, an aquatic elf? or just the swim speed?
Unless it is mentioned in the Change Shape ability, you do not get any Ex, Sp, or Su abilities in your new shape.--Dmilewski 13:19, 18 October 2008 (MDT)
It seems to me, however, that you could change into an aquatic humanoid to gain access to a swimming movement rate... you will still drown if you're to long without air, but you can swim/dive faster. Or did I get that wrong?
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