Discussion:Philosphy Fans: Nietzsche Superman Template

How would you make a Nietzche Superman template?

Summerscythe 10:55, 24 February 2009 (MST)

Ever since i read Crime and Punishment, i have been fascinated with the concept of the superman. So i'v ebeen thinking about making it into a template for D and D. I'm not sure exactly what to do though, Any suggestions?

I would have to think an übermensch would be a new race entirely, given the Nietzsche's analogy of ape : man :: man : übermensch. The other aspects beyond the physical, the freedom from the laws that bind men, that is something that I think would be difficult to replicate with any degree of balance. Take physics, for example: how do you make a being who can ignore the laws physics without breaking the game? -- Jota 11:23, 24 February 2009 (MST)

Summerscythe 12:24, 24 February 2009 (MST)

I agree with the fact that it may be game-breaking, i was thinking however, of making this a template only for NPCs, maybe for the main villian in the game, whose above the law and above normal men. It would only be a suitable template for PC's if you also gave it to all of the major humanoid fights, for example, if you play a gestalt campaign, the other major villians should all be gestalt. if you understand what i'm saying. but it would be especially helpful push for a final encounter bad guy, dont you think? any other thoughts?

Lord Dhazriel 13:15, 24 February 2009 (MST)

Spell-like ability. A mid level wizard or sorcerer can easily unbid himself from the law that bind man. Gravity, Overland Fly. A constant freedom of movement may be the answer to your questions (as well as a flight speed). Too much ability would make the race suck, because of extreme LA. paragon creature, pretty much the answer.

Surgo 14:17, 24 February 2009 (MST)

NPC-only templates are extremely unsatisfying to read or hear about as a player, and it also seems like quite a cop-out when it comes to balance: "I'm not sure how to make this balanced so it will just be NPC-only!"

Anyway, I don't see why it has to be extreme or anything. Nietzsche's idea of the 'overman' (better translation than superman) was virtually entirely philosophical and moral. This obviously can have physical effects in D&D-land (just see any Outsider for that), but it doesn't have to be extreme.

S1Q3T3 08:21, 25 February 2009 (MST)

There is an option in D&D for characters who perceive themselves as evolved beyond the constraints of "slave religion" or ethics: evil alignment. Nietzsche's system of thought (to the extent to which it can be called a system) is really a point of view rather than a guidebook to a particular sort of evolved person.

The paradox of Nietzsche's thought is that in devaluing the rational and the moral, and praising the Dionysian and powerful, he merely substitutes one set of primitive values for another.

As the "apes" we can't reasonably be expected to know what the "evolved" human would be like or what would be important to him or her, but it seems likely that our concepts of power and success would enthrall him no more than a baboon's red ass impresses us.

Though I'm not a Buddhist, I think buddhism has a more reasonable take on the "evolved" human, and its practitioners can be understood as trying to become evolved. The Buddha (the story goes) had a fantastic compassion for all living things, which was the only reason he hung around on this plane of existence after he had evolved beyond us -- to help and teach. He didn't seek power, but his understanding of and deep sympathy with the universe gave him, in effect, great power over the physical world; able to travel great distances, perform many miracles, etc.

In game terms, a Buddha-like figure might be a psion with high levels of Knowledge and Diplomacy. His force of personality and his deep insight into the nature of the universe would allow him to accomplish many things, but he would not be an empire-builder, or a seeker of power and followers.

Hijax 05:29, 26 February 2009 (MST)

though i never read crime and punishment, nor any of Nietzsce's books (though im trying to find out in which book he wrote about übermensch), i like your approch to this S1Q3T3. apes dont define power or succes the same way we do, so its unlikely that the übermensch will either. The übermensch will, in my opinion, probably be a high-level either sorcerer or psion, possibly with a divine rank of 0-1.

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