User talk:Quincy/Tall Knight (5e Equipment)

This is a very interesting idea. I had done something similar in a 4e Campaign, but nothing close to this size; so I'm very interesting in how this will finish up. I'm curious about the Topaz gems. Will there be any limits on these or will a Tall Knight be blinking around the battle field, or swapping places and causing attacks to hit friendlies; maybe shadow walking halfway across the continent? They are good abilities, but I think a recharge or a daily limit of use would make these, already, powerful creations a little less godly. The abilities obtained by the Dragon Hearts. Since these things seem to be on par with Dragons themselves does the size and set (chromatic or metallic) of the dragon the heart is taken from matter in it's creation? And if so, would a better set up be to give the Chromatic the damage (move the Copper Dragon up to the Green Dragon) and have any taken from Metallic dragons grant Regional/Legendary actions instead, showing a separation of the two? Also, if I take a Red Wyrmling's heart, why should I get the same dmg output as an Ancient's heart? Either way, these are just my thoughts, ideas and questions. I really like this concept and will be watching this page. --Ravenwng (talk) 15:27, 12 November 2014 (MST)

I had sort of assumed the swapping ability could only be used in the general "immediate area" around the tall knight, and only with a line of sight, but I haven't built a design for that ability that I'm comfortable with yet. As for the dragon hearts, I hadn't considered separating chromatic from metallic by any pattern or theme. That is an awesome idea! Thank you! Finally, as for the age of the dragon... hm... it makes sense to reward the capture of a more powerful dragon's heart... But this idea is already so elaborate as it is!--Kydo (talk) 05:36, 13 November 2014 (MST)

Ok, I played a little with it. Not sure what you think but we'll see.

- I added this line with the Stat blocks: If they have proficiency with Tall Knight use then all their weapon, shield, and Athletics/Acrobatics proficiencies transfer to the Tall Knight as well as their Ability Saves. So a falling knight might roll with a punch, or make a jump check, but can't try to pick pocket or make a stealth check.

- I expanded a bit on your Catastrophic Failure idea in the Wings section: "Very few Tall Knights can even jump, let alone fly; any drop of 20ft will cause a Catastrophic Check, DC 10; +1 DC for every 10ft above 20 (DC 11 at 30ft, 12 at 40 etc..) Wings have, historically, been more decorative than functional. Functional wings, the kind we will discuss here, can have any of three functions." And this comes back again later.

- I made the Defensive wings give only +1, since adding a shield could possibly take it up to +3AC instead of +4. On Active wings I removed the idea of flight, so they have a distinct weakness that can be exploited in case someone doesn't use a Beryl stone, so now it reads: "Active wings are capable of generating actual lift, enough to allow the Tall Knight to glide 20ft for every 10ft of height, or a 30ft vertical jump and increase the ‘drop’ distance to +40ft before causing a Catastrophic check, DC 10; +1 DC for every 10ft above 40 (DC 11 at 50ft, 12 at 60 etc..). If the Tall Knight converts all actions to working the active wings during a descent (controlling glide, pitch, yaw, and angle of descent) it can triple the drop/check distance and right itself in a fall higher than 40ft but can’t take other actions until it’s on the ground or willing to drop."

- I removed the idea of projectile weapons, saying it would come from Siege engines on the ground, or from the Gems/Hearts of the engines to keep the OMG factor down a bit.

- I added a part on Legs: "Legs are similar to arms, but will always have, at least, two long support sections (thigh and shin) and three major joints (hip, knee, and ankle). The design of the legs as a whole can very, from basic humanoid to animal or bird design, although the stress levels on joints for anything other than a straight leg design is often more than the alternate design can handle if not constructed by a Master Craftsman and would make that section a major vulnerability."

For the Dragon hearts I put in that they give no abilities for a Young or Wyrmling dragons, so only Adult or Ancient Dragons, and added the Shadow Dragon (it's a template, but has enough to make it useable for this).

Black: Frightful presence: I added "A frightened creature cannot attack the Tall Knight, nor move closer to the Tall Knight of its own free will until it succeeds against the Fear effect. They can make an additional save immediately after taking any damage."

Green: Toxic Presence. Blue: Sink Holes: Hidden sink holes form and vanish within 40ft of the Tall Knight, though never in its direct path where it might step in one itself. Creatures must make a DC 20 Perc (Wis) to see the sink hole, a DC 15 Dex (acrobatics) to avoid falling in when the thin surface breaks apart. On a fail, take 1d6 damage for every 10’ fallen.

Brass: False Foe: Within 30ft of the Tall Knight, illusions of enemies appear and vanish. All in Aura must make a DC 20 Wis (perc) save at the start of each of their turns to tell what is/isn’t real or have disadvantage on all attacks that turn.

Bronze: Lightning Pulse: Lightning pulses within 30ft of the Tall Knight, all creatures must make a DC15 Dex save or take 3d6 lighting damage and the lightning will jump to another person within 10ft of the target (max 3). If any make the save, no damage is taken.

Copper: Slowing: DC 15 Con save at the start of each turn or be slowed, speed is halved, can take only 1 attack on that turn, no bonus actions until successful Con save.

Gold: Glorious Presence, I added "A charmed creature cannot attack the Tall Knight until it succeeds against the Charm effect; and can make an additional save immediately after it takes any damage." So both Fear and charm can be broken.

Silver: Passive: DC 15 Con save or become passive. When passive the creature will take no action to harm anything else within the Aura. If it takes damage it can take any immediate reactions it might have and immediately attempt a save.

Shadow: Fallen Foe: All creatures in aura make a DC15 Con save or take 3d6 Necrotic damage. Any humanoid that dies due to this damage will rise as a Shadow at the start of the Tall Knights next turn, acting immediately after the Tall Knight, and attacking any creature it can except the Tall Knight.

- I am curious, how much damage does it take to start a Tall Knight? It mentions 1d4 for four rounds of use, so I was thinking 2d6 for "Some time before the fight" ten rounds of use "some time after a fight". and if it goes beyond 10 rounds which translates to about 1 minute, the 1d4 dmg for four rounds starts.

Well, that's my little tweaks. I obviously didn't make the changes to your page since I won't presume what you do or don't wish to use/change. But like I said, I like this concept.--Ravenwng (talk) 15:00, 13 November 2014 (MST)

I like almost all of your ideas! The stuff about the dragon hearts, though- the effects are a little extreme compared to what I had planned. I also intended the DCs and damage values to scale with the user's level. So, a lvl20 character with an ancient red dragon's heart in their tall knight inflicts 20 fire damage on everyone within 30ft. unless they succeed a DC20 CON save to recieve 10 fire damage instead. A little intense, certainly, but that is a lvl20 character. I was also trying to base their effects somewhat off of their breath attacks. When I wrote that, the MM wasn't out yet, so I went off the breath attacks for the Dragonborn race. (Which no longer make any sense) Now I have the MM, so I'm going to update it. Maybe the effect should vary with the age of the dragon heart? So, for instance, a wyrmling's heart does nothing, a young dragon's heart has a status condition effect aura like Toxic Presence, an adult dragon's heart can have a damaging aura like Heatwave or Coldsnap, and an ancient dragon's heart could have some of the more devastating effects that you have described. I'm glad you brought this up, because I was very unhappy with how there was no way to make a "cheap" tall knight with practically no magical effects or powers.

I'd like the ability to make a flying tall knight, like an Escaflowne ripoff, but it would depend on the use of magic, with wings simply reducing the cost of making it fly, and having flight as one of the topmost expensive powers.

I'm not sure about projectile weapons. I mean, what is there, really, to stop someone from strapping a ballista to the thing's arm? Of everything, that'd probably be the easiest part of construction! On the other hand, why fire sharpened tree trunks at people when you can hurl fireballs the size of a car? I dunno. I'll get to it when I talk about weapons. I'm pretty sure I'll just write an all-encompassing rule to rescale the standard weapons to match the tall knights.

I added your ideas which are immediately applicable. (Sorry, I got excited and couldn't wait to see it put in!) Thank you so much for all the feedback!--Kydo (talk) 10:52, 14 November 2014 (MST)

AAAAAAAAA!!!! The images I chose look beautiful on my computer, but they DESTROY the page layout on cellular devices! How do you changs their size??--Kydo (talk) 13:31, 13 January 2015 (MST)

You can only change the size of images uploaded to the wiki, and not externally linked images. Of course we can't upload an image under copyright. Here are a few options:

• Get permission from the artist to copy the image (I have had some success with this on deviantArt, they will usually ask that it be a lower resolution copy anyway).
• Link to the thumbnail (might be too small but see below, I sometimes do this)
• Find another image on an artists site that has lower-resolution images (sometimes happens with blog-format sites) Marasmusine (talk) 14:11, 13 January 2015 (MST)

I have a question about the installing magic abilities. I think it seems a little over powered. For example, you could pay 9,000 gold and install Wish! Infinite Wishes! I think the ability should be changed so that you can only program in powers of level 1-8, not level 9. What do you think about this?

That section doesn't make sense yet, I assumed it was still being written. I'm not sure what "any magical effect or spell built in" means, does it mean that the tall knight is subject to the magical effect or spell, or that the user can cast the spell? How often? It also doesn't say how the "additional requirements and materials" effect the price. Also, the "value" of a spell should increases exponentially, not linearly (for example, compare value against magic item level DMG p. 135) Marasmusine (talk) 00:40, 21 February 2015 (MST)

Yes. That part is still under construction. And will be for quite some time actually. I need to familiarize myself better with 5e magic. Unfortunately, I hate playing spellcasters, and have always thoroughly disliked magic in every edition of D&D. Honestly, if I had my way, there wouldn't even be a spell book- just five pages of general rules explaining how magic works as a separate set of physics, followed by a chart. In any case, yes, the price should increase exponentially-ish, but even that wouldn't be appropriate, as each spell level has a WIDE variation in actual spell power between individual spells. Puting a price tag on the implications of a spell's mechanics using a one-sentence rule is hard. The worst part is that there are no discernable rules behind how spells are made, just a bunch of bumbling guidelines. The DMG does not clarify anything, despite speaking at great length about it. Even MTG cards make more sense than the spell book for D&D! This section is actually the primary reason work on this page has come to a screeching halt. D&D magic is just such a stupid frustrating mess, I'm tempted to scrap tall knight spell casting entirely! It's only included because logic dictates that it should be possible anyways.--Kydo (talk) 01:32, 21 February 2015 (MST)

"Tall knights can have any magical effect or spell built in."

Generic. That means you can have it cast spells or be affected by spells, or both at the same time. Whatever. Even self-destructive effects, though I can't imagine any reason to do so. The main problem is that D&D does not clearly divide enchantment from magic the way more practical settings, like TES, do.

"They normally cast all spells as cantrips"

That's how often. Should actually go by charges in the case of tall knight spell casting, but that breaks down when you try to give it permanent passive magical effects.

"Additionally, the more requirements and materials needed to cast the spell, the more expensive it becomes, as a way of getting around those requirements must be found."

Requirements and materials referring to spell components. I have not devised a metric by which spell components may be converted into a price tag.

Kydo (talk) 01:41, 21 February 2015 (MST)

I would say just treat it like they had a built in wand. Pick a wand, add its value to the total price. Then you've got your spell and your charges. Bob's your uncle, easy peasy, no new mechanics needed. Marasmusine (talk) 01:51, 22 February 2015 (MST)

Except that wands make no damn sense to begin with! There's nothing standardized! No actual rules! I don't understand how you other people can make up new spells in any organized or balanced fashion- the old ones set no meaningful precedents. Even spellcasting in general is a confusing mess that I still don't fully understand... Let's just say my wizard beats things to death more often than most wizards would, and more often than he probably needs to. I mean, don't get me wrong, confusion and frustration are the only emotions D&D magic has ever brought me. This isn't a 5e thing. This is a problem I have always had with this game. Actually, I like 5e the most in this regard. Dwarven wizards can crack skulls right alongside their fighter companion! But magic on its own is just a maze of nonsense to me. I'm really not the right person to write this section. Kydo (talk) 22:54, 25 February 2015 (MST)

Correct, there's no magic formula for making a spell or item. I went ahead and rewrote that section.

Weapons

I'm rewriting the Weapons section. The DMG states that Huge weapons deal triple weapon damage, so that's what I'm sticking with. The whole thing about unique weapons being linked to Monster attacks and then the gp cost linked to that monster's XP is quite silly (XP is derived from CR which is derived from all kinds of things other than the monster's attack). Marasmusine (talk) 01:48, 26 February 2015 (MST)

Ok, so now how do I build a weapon resembling a pair of giant bladed jaws? Or a weapon which acts like Scorpion's (From Mortal Komat) tractor hook? Or how about a tall knight that attacks which clawed hands? Or a tall knight with a long, thin needle stinger which stabs through armor to poison the operator inside? Or any other weapon that isn't just an oversized hand tool? There's a difference between "I hit you with something sharp" and "my something sharp grabs you by the leg and I begin to drag you with it." Kydo (talk) 07:30, 26 February 2015 (MST)

How would you have made Scorpion's hookshot originally? Marasmusine (talk) 07:57, 26 February 2015 (MST)

Probably the Chuul pincer attack, at 30ft reach, with a note stating that, to maintain grapple, they must be pulked toward the attacker. There's probay a better option, but that was the first similar attack I found as I browsed through. Kydo (talk) 08:06, 26 February 2015 (MST)

It's also Large, so presumably you wouldn't triple the damage either, you'd halve it to 1d6 (to get Medium damage) then triple to 3d6. So we have to hunt through the MM for something similar, and change it's reach, damage and effect. I think it would be better to have a list of extra properties you can buy for your weapon. It can't cover every possibility, but then neither can browsing the MM. Marasmusine (talk) 13:49, 26 February 2015 (MST)

Absolutely. Kydo (talk) 20:29, 26 February 2015 (MST)

To-Do

• Finish Dragon Hearts

• Needs effects for each age stage of dragon heart.

• Hatchlings have no effect.
• Young dragons have a mild sensory aura.
• Adult dragons have an active and unique aura.
• Elder dragons have an impressive aura, effectively turning the surrounding area into their "lair".

• Need effects for (what was it? Copper dragon?)

• Remove play rules from specific sections. (For instance, jumping, falling, and flight rules should be discussed with the other rules relating to tall knight operation, not in the section about wings.)
• Expand upon legs. There are still a number of arrangements and styles not discussed.

• Treads
• Rails
• Serpentine
• Boat

• Change "Legs" to "Platform".
• Flesh out weapon designs by adding more ways of customizing weapons and determine pricing of advanced weapons.
• Rewrite the entire section on magic.
• Use the weapon customizations list format to build a list of mundane powers which can be built into tall knights.

• Move the switching visor into mundane powers.
• Add in oversized and undersized tall knight rules.
• Flight Rules
• Industrial construction, absent of magic
• Transformations
• Combining
• Pilot/Tall Knight form mismatch controls
• Alternate blood sources

• Move mundane powers to its correct position in regards to the pricing formula.
• Spell check, remove redundancies.