UA talk:Reducing Level Adjustments

In the following discussion, I use the word "earned" in the context of xp to mean actually gotten by adventuring, not xp "granted" by receiving a level adjustment.

GNOLL EXAMPLE MAY BE MISLEADING BECAUSE...

There is a cost to a character reducing their LAs by your system, but it's difficult to see what it is the way you describe it. Dropping a level of xp when dropping a LA is a no brainer because if you didn't, the character would end up gaining a class level without having had to adventure for it. The gnoll fighter is not great example because it seems like the +1 LA is gotten for free. In the gnoll fighter example, to become 5th level, the character began with 3 levels worth of xp (6000) and has to earn the next three levels which totals (15000). But after the LA reduction, the character is level 5 but with all the benefits that caused the +1 LA. Characters who start at level 1 with no LAs and work up to 5 must also earn 15,000 to get there. Yet, they have none of the benefits that our gnoll with +1 LA now has essentially for free. The problem with the logic I've presented here is that there is, in fact, a cost, but it can not be discerned by comparing the gnoll's progress to a level 1 character with no level adjustment's, which is what many people might do, initially. The comparison must be made with a 2nd level character (because that's where the gnoll starts pre level adjustment) for the cost to become apparent and the logic to be sound.

If the example were changed to a half-giant fighter with a +1 LA who rises from a starting level 2 and must earn levels 3, 4 and 5 (the 3 levels required for +1 LA), then the cost becomes more apparent. At level 5 the LA +1 is dropped along with 4000xp. The character is now 4th level even. In her career, the character earned 2000+3000+4000=9,000 xp to get her where she is now (at 4th level with no LA +1). Her companions who started at level 1 with no LAs have also earned 9000 xp which makes them level 4 (6000 xp) with 3000 xp toward their next level. The cost to her, then, is to lag behind her companions by 3000 xp. In your description you name the cost as the 5000 xp she had to lose going from level 5 to level 4. But in reality, she traded her LA for only 3000 xp. Although, that said, the ECL of the character will cause her to earn less per adventure earlier on than her companions, so she may, in fact, lose more xp. But that will be made up because after the LA she'll be earning more per adventure when she's lacking a level (so, that variation in xp earning seems a wash out).

INTERVAL FOR REDUCTION

As for the formula of requiring 3x-the-original-LA before any reductions are taken, IMO that has problems. The +1 LA and +2 LA examples were OK. But what of +3 LA characters? They may take their first reduction at level 3x3+3 = 12? One might make an argument that stuff that makes a 1st level character look as tough as a 4th level character starts to look radically unimpressive at level 12. By the time they can take away a 2nd LA, they will be (they drop from 12 to 11 at that level so...) 11 ECL + 3x2 levels = level 17. To drop their 3rd LA, they'll be 16 + 3 = 19. In this example, to reach level 18 with no LA the character has earned 192,000. That's enough xp to make it to level 20 if you started at level 1 with no level adjustments. In this case, the +3 LA ended up costing 39,000 xp (the cost of catching up with companions at level 20 with 2000 xp toward 21). That sounds more extreme than reasonable to me. I'd like to see those LAs dropped earlier in the characters career -- back when they started becoming relatively marginal.

Even in the +1 LA example, it seems to me that the LA is dropped too soon (at 4th level). Perhaps a system that is not dependent on the number of LA's is necessary. The rate at which the benefits (which caused the original level adjustment) become irrelevant is more a funtion of the rising class levels that the original number of levels that were adjusted. Drop one LA after 6 class levels and one more every three class levels after has a good feel to me, and it's simpler.

COSTS OF REDUCING LA

IMO, the cost (lagging behind in xp) becomes too great at higher levels, especially when compared to the value that was placed on the benefits that caused the level adjustment in the first place. (a +3 level adjustment is valued at 6,000 xp, right? to go from level one to level 4). At the higher levels it will cost 10s of thousands of xp points to remove the level adjustment. Might we just allow players to purchase their level adjustment for the original cost once they attain certain levels? The answer there is ...erm, that's not a good idea. Why, because a character who reaches 6th level with a new 5th class level and a +1 LA can now lose the LA, lose 1000 xp, but now only have to earn back that 1000 xp to advance from her new 5th class level to level 6. She only has 1000 xp worth of adventuring under her belt during her 5th class level. Doesn't feel quite right.

Keep in mind two things here: 1) in her past CLASS levels she has had to earn a 1000 xp more each class level than her companions to gain new class levels, and 2) she is currently behind her companions in a class level, and differences are showing at this point (Her party may desire her to get tougher so she can continue to pull her load). From a psychological point of view, her companions may wish her to get tougher, but not have too easy of time at it. Only having to earn an extra 1000 xp at level 5 seems like too easy a time of it. The DMG provides a guideline of 6 adventures per level. So, 1000 xp at 5th level is tantamount to one adventure. Too easy. Two adventures might be more like it, though.

Therefore, I propose that the amount of xp the character must sacrifice is double it's initial cost. So the first time an LA is shed, it costs 1000 (the amount of xp that was granted by the LA to go from 1st to second level) x2 = 2000 xp. The second time, it costs 2000 x 2 = 4000 xp. The third time, it costs 3000 x 2 = 6000. That's a lot less of a cost than the current system, but I think the reasoning justifies it. Just to reiterate, the benefits (that caused the LA in the first place) have become marginal at current levels so to get rid of the LA penalty should be correspondingly marginal.

Finally, it should be noted that there are templates out there with LAs where abilities increase with levels (Manual of the Planes Half-Elemental templates, for example). IMO, these templates should be exempt from level adjustment, or at the very least, carefully considered by a DM before level adjustments are allowed. Syneran 08:21, 12 January 2012 (MST)