Talk:Wing Guards (5e Equipment)

Winged bias

Though it is an expensive piece of equipment, it's still a piece of equipment that only winged characters can use that gives a flat bonus to Armor Class. If there was an equivalent item that non-flyers could wear, literally everyone wearing armor would get it, because there's no downside.

Realistically speaking, having wings should make you easier to hit by virtue of being larger; the rules are generous in not having a penalty for that. However, as such, there is no basis for offering extra protection for a vulnerability that doesn't actually exist. —Proton^[talk] 23:43, 17 November 2016 (MST)

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I understand your concern for flying characters getting an AC bonus and how it relates to balance. When I created the item, I initially created it as a flavor item to replace the use of a basic shield on winged races, as use of one while flying would be rather clunky. The idea is that ground-based races will naturally get higher AC due to their ability to adorn themselves in medium and heavy armor, and that if a flying race is wearing armor, this is one of the few pieces that they can obtain to help their otherwise middling AC scores. If you'd prefer, we could impose a class restriction such that only specific classes may find proper use of it, as shields are utilized in the base game. That, or disallow the wearing of Wing Guards while also using a shield. The perceived vulnerability is not the reason for creating a piece of partial armor to protect the wings. Rather, it is a way to tack on AC to a winged character in a flavorful manner, and meant for characters of high level only (hence the excessive gold requirement, as you've pointed out). --Spinosail (talk) 10:42, 18 November 2016 (MST)

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If the intent is purely flavorful, then just tell your flying characters that their shields are aesthetically wing guards. Alternatively, incorporate wing guards as a +1 magic armor, and flavor-wise explain that the wing guards are made of mithral or solid force or whatever.

Flying races aren't restricted from using medium or heavy armor, they just can't fly while wearing it. It's a trade-off that is always available and makes sense. If you let light-armor fliers have more AC, you make medium-/heavy-armor fliers even less viable because the trade-off is worse.

A class restriction would feel hacky, and not tackle the core problem.

If you want to tack on AC to a winged character that doesn't mesh with the balance of standard equipment, and especially if it's meant for high-level characters, then I again recommend making it a magic item, because that can be as crazy as you like while properly implying that the DM is never obligated to make it available to players.

Regarding the gold requirement, 1000 gp sounds steeper than it really is. A heavy-armor character is practically guaranteed to afford full plate by 5th level, which is yet more expensive. —Proton^[talk] 20:15, 18 November 2016 (MST)

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The intent was in fact simply meant to have a flavorful alternative to shields, yes. If that is simply all that must be done, then re-classifying Wing Guards as a type of shield and restricting its use with another shield ought to fix the problem. It's not meant to be an enormously powerful item, simply for flavor.

My mistake, I was aware that flying races may wear whatever armor dependent on their class rather.

Making the item a magic item is a last resort, in my opinion, as the intent (as stated earlier) is to make it a flavorful alternative to a simple +1 shield on a flyer.

Interesting point on the gp, realistically, what price point would you recommend? --Spinosail (talk) 00:56, 29 November 2016 (MST)

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If it's a shield replacement, then you need to state that if you are wearing wing guards, you can't benefit from a shield (instead of the "note"). It's a bit contrived though. And what are "Attacks that could potentially knock an airborne wearer out of the air"?

• Alternative: It's light armor that grants 12 + Dex, or 13 + Dex if you are flying.
• Alternative 2: It is medium partial armor that gives you +1 AC if you are wearing light or no armor.
• Suggested special: "If you are wearing wing guards and are knocked prone while flying, you can make a DC 15 Dexterity save to avoid falling." Marasmusine (talk) 02:52, 29 November 2016 (MST)

Alternative 1 still gives an unfair advantage to flying creatures. For it to be fair, there would need to be another armor that gives 13 + Dex to non-flying creatures, at which point the two armors collectively invalidate studded leather.

Alternative 2 is preferable, because non-flying creatures have access to functionally-equivalent stuff, but it still distinctly impacts the balancing factor of "be able to fly" versus "have more AC" that flying races are supposed to have.

The special is good though, because it serves to mitigate a flying-specific vulnerability that actually exists. —Proton^[talk] 03:36, 29 November 2016 (MST)

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I believed that "note" was sufficient, but will make the necessary adjustment to pull it up to your standards. Alternative 1, I agree, is still unfair. Alternative 2 is actually more what I was originally going for, but requiring another comparable armor for ground-based races and outclassing studded leather feels unnecessary.

I do like your idea for the special - that was essentially what I wished to accomplish; my wording was off, however, as you pointed out.

I'll make the adjustment to have it be shield replacement, as well as reword the special to your specifics. --Spinosail (talk) 12:29, 29 November 2016 (MST)