Talk:Warmage (4e Class)

Suggestions

Opening up the discussion page for suggestions and general thoughts about the class in general. I think this class has a lot of potential, being unique in its features and offering a diverse set of abilities. I would like to see this class grow to more than what it is in my mind, however, and would greatly appreciate any suggestions to its growth. --Biral 01:52, 18 February 2009 (EST)

I've been working with additional ideas of skills and abilities for this class, and will update it by the end of the month with some new powers. But I've yet to decide on a well-defined course to pursue. I'll be convening with some friends of mine for a more substantial look at prospective powers. --Biral 10:26, 05 July 2009 (EST)

Just an update, since I've seriously neglected this page: I'm currently revising most of my ideas posted here and will be updating the whole class as soon as I can pry myself away from my studies in school. I have quite a few changes that will end up revamping some of the baseline powers this class has, as well as opening it up for future manipulation by introducing some storyline and lore behind it to better guide its progress. As always, feedback is more than welcome. --Biral 13:29, 16 November 2011 (EST)

Wow, it has been a long time. Over the past few months, I've been adding plenty of new skills and abilities for the Warmage to use and hopefully the class can be reviewed for completion within the next few weeks. Biral (talk) 17:33, 23 February 2013 (MST)

It's always a long time before I get back to fix up some things. Sorry about that! Real life just keeps chugging away and I don't make time to do awesome things like this as much as I'd like to. I went ahead and addressed Marasmusine's points, valid as they were, in my recent changes to the class's main page and applicable power pages. And yes, Dylan, that's pretty much spot on with my intent, thanks for the support! --Biral (talk) 01:03, 7 April 2014 (MDT)

Feedback

• Arcane Affinity - "You are required to perform a saving throw against a hostile spell." - monster statblocks do not identify attacks as "spells", and I can't think of any that ask for an immediate saving throw. You might be thinking of (save ends) conditions, but these are made on your turn, so you can't do an immediate reaction against it.
• Mystic Orb - How long do the orbs last for? Is it expected that the warmage creates them all before an encounter starts, or is the intention that they are created during a battle?
• Empower Orb - make the bonus a power bonus to make it clear that it doesn't stack. The level 21 bonus is the same as the level 11 bonus. It's a standard action, but I don't think it's worth losing an attack for the sake of an attack bonus.
• Force Strike (4e Power) - This is accurate (weapon vs. NAD) and can push more than 1 square.
• Arcane Weapon (4e Power) - What kind of attacks gets the 1d4 bonus damage? All weapon attacks, or just warmage weapon attacks? How long does the bonus last for?
• I'll look at the encounter and daily powers another time. Marasmusine (talk) 10:34, 16 August 2013 (MDT)

I can answer a few of your questions. When he means hostile spells he's talking about enemy attacks that have anything to do with arcana energies. This could be anything from a magic missile to a simple wack from a enchanted sword. Warmages are very in tune with arcana, more than most mages. Second, Mystic orbs most likely stick around a long as time until you lose concentration and they just puff. Though I think there should be a limit to how many you can have. Third, I actually like the Empowered Mystic Orb At-Will power since it gives you the ability to charge and than release one over powered attack that can kill anything, it fits a Warmage very well. For Force Strike I don't see what your talking about, it's not a basic attack so it would run off of your Strength or Dexterity (Whichever is higher). Though I do have to say it should be Implement not Weapon just so it would make sense. Arcane Weapon would only work on his Implement Weapon and it would last until an extended rest when most other buffs ware off. Over all I like the Warmage class so far. >Dylan

Let's tackle these one at a time then.

Arcane Affinity - "Once per day, when you are the target of an attack with the Arcane keyword," so as written this doesn't do anything, since monster attacks never have the Arcane keyword, nor do they have anything like "spell" or "arcana". It could fall to DM fiat, which makes a weak design. Is the Royal Mummy's plague chant an arcane power or a divine power? It could be either or both. So how to handle this? You need to use the keywords that the game does use. There is a 4e feat that is supposed to represent arcane defense, and it's keyed on being hit by a Close or Area attack (since they are most likely to be spell-like attacks). Or it could be based on the type of damage the attack causes, or what defense it targets, or if it inflicts a certain condition, ongoing damage, save ends, which are all likely spell-like effects.

Next, it is "once per day" and it is a triggered response, so it is actually a daily power and should be formatted as such. I see further down it is written out as a power, that's confusing, I'll reformat it. Marasmusine (talk) 05:11, 7 April 2014 (MDT)

Okay, I've reformatted using the newer style. The powers can be transcluded into this new list, rather than in a separate powers list. I can do this if you're not sure how. Marasmusine (talk) 05:30, 7 April 2014 (MDT)

Hey there Marasmusine, I'd love it if you transcluded those powers into the new list. I've been super-busy with my work, so I've not had the time to dedicate to developing the Warmage as much as I should. I'm investigating the rewording of Arcane Affinity, even if that would be able to be reworded effectively in 4th edition, and still debating to scrap it for a spell choice instead (Fire, Cold, Lightning, Force, etc); in fact, I'll probably do that right now. Biral (talk) 16:58, 17 July 2014 (MDT)

Just edited Arcane Affinity, so now it should be a lot more balanced. Instead of being an intended blanket ability to counter spells, it's only a specific type of damage (traditionally associated with the most common wizard spells) now, chosen by the player. Hopefully this makes each Warmage feel more like a unique character, instead of a static barrier for a group of adventurers (nothing stopping five people from rolling one of each type, though). Let me know if it could be reworded better. Biral (talk) 17:57, 17 July 2014 (MDT)

I've done the at-will powers. I noticed that none of the powers use Wisdom in any way, so I'm not sure what the "Warmage Magister" build is for. I also don't think that many people will pick the Str/Dex powers, since Int always has to be the prime ability for daily powers to be effective. There's some other issues as well but I'll have to go into them later. Marasmusine (talk) 02:03, 18 July 2014 (MDT)

Good point. I'll revisit them today if I can get time, replace the Strength and Dexterity for Wisdom for the movement effects and Intelligence for the damage effects. Simplify and redesign. The Magister should be focused on moving enemies around the battlefield, the Spellblade on doing the most damage possible, and the Warder on being personally mobile. 50.105.13.220 06:57, 18 July 2014 (MDT)

I would have Intelligence as the principle ability for all the powers, and have the secondary abilities as the "kickers" if that makes sense. Marasmusine (talk) 07:14, 18 July 2014 (MDT)

Makes perfect sense. I just changed the two non-Int Level 1 abilities to Int, will review the others and compile the listings for the rest of the levels following your example there. Thanks a ton =) Biral (talk) 15:01, 18 July 2014 (MDT)

Regarding the power list, each tier can go on its own subpage, I am testing this formatting at Living Spell (4e Elite Character). Marasmusine (talk) 02:20, 19 July 2014 (MDT)

I used your work as a template for the rest of the Warmage's abilities up to level 10; editing powers as needed along the way. They should have each received a look-over, so let me know if any of them seem imbalanced (I also addressed the problem with Implosion, so it should read more effectively now). Gotta drive for hours today, though, so let me know if more work is needed on the pre-10 abilities or if the class' paragon and epic tiers are ready for implementation. Thanks! Biral (talk) 08:02, 20 July 2014 (MDT)

I'll take a proper look later. At first glance, I think that any Close Burst powers should target "each enemy" rather than "each creature", or they're going to be too hard to use without hurting friends. Good luck with your driving!Marasmusine (talk) 08:07, 20 July 2014 (MDT)

I looked through the Close bursts and agree, so I changed them to "each enemy" instead of "each creature". Let me know if we can move onto the paragon and epic powers; I'll start developing Paragon paths soon (was thinking of one that really took advantage of the Mystic Weapon skill and expanded on it, becoming this Warmage with dozens of arcane weapons whirling about on the battlefield; another that really takes the weapon imbue abilities - Arcane Weapon, Searing Flame, Force Weapon, Freezing Ray - and empowers them along with new powers to bolster melee attacks with weapon enchants; and perhaps one more that just offers more AoE utility, like slow fields, force storms, and defensive zones for allies). Biral (talk) 07:43, 23 July 2014 (MDT)

For implosion, would this work?

"Effect: If the pull would bring a creature into the square of another creature, then both are teleported to random squares in the burst, take 1d6 damage, and are knocked prone."