Talk:Warforged, 2nd Variant (5e Race)

Finally Posting it on Dandiwiki

Ok, hopefully this rendition is well received. I made this as a whole separate article from the previously posted Warforged homebrew race as it has had a very tumultuous history with many different voices trying to be heard and a lot of directions it is getting pulled in. As it stands this is the first piece of homebrew that I had started for 5e and so it is something that I have had playtested and tweaked over the last 2 1/2 years. Over that time my grasp of fun mechanics and fumbled mechanics has led me, and in turn, this pet project of mine to where i am now.

If my equivalent of "developer notes" is needed, I can do so and show where my thought process is coming from with a lot of things. If an alternate rule for fusing special armor onto a warforge would be something people want, I can work something out (its been done already) it'd be a simple matter of tweaking to fit. I ask that if you disagree with my version of warforged, tell me why. Let me know how its messed up and be ready to prove it.

Also apparently derped up the site already with lack of proper conformity. Ah, well, good thing there's that Marasmusine guy floating around. Hoping they didn't groan seeing my name pop up. - Gr7mm Bobb 13Jan17

I try to make myself available for feedback and help. I should say upfront that when you publish something on this wiki, you are also allowing other people to edit the work! I say this now in case we get into any discussion about ownership, and please don't be offended if anyone puts up any "maintenance" messages calling for changes (usually to ask for improvements in spelling/grammar or balance).

My first observation is that the race seems to have more than the normal number of benefits. If I use "Marasmusine's Meter", I get a score of at least 6 (the target is 4.5). Marasmusine (talk) 14:05, 13 January 2017 (MST)

Appreciate the heads up. The editing bit I don't mind when it's for bad articulation, spelling, or even an unclear delivery. I'm just a little nervous of it getting hijacked and it no longer looking like my initial intention when I had 0 input. That being said, it seems as though you patrol the site enough to help alleviate potential issues.

As for the race itself, how did you do your point breakdown of some features? My goal is to provide something that at most (probably via subrace) comes out about as stacked in potential as the Mountain Dwarf. But I can see that clipping a bit of excess off of the race probably won't be too intensive to the point where it loses identity.--Gr7mm Bobb (talk) 15:39, 13 January 2017 (MST)

I'll try and break it down.

• I don't give much weight to negative features, except where they offset a directly related benefit. For example, I'm not going to factor in "1/2 of the normally recovered hit points from spells", since it's perfectly possible to play in a party without a cleric.
• Standard ability score improvements (0)
• Immunity to Poisoned condition (1)
• Immunity to sleep effects (0.5)
• Immunity to paralysis (1)
• Immunity to disease (1)
• It's not clear if you want this to be a Humanoid or a Construct type. If this is a Construct, this grants immunity to a few spells, so is worth (0.5)
• For body of war, it should be made clear that its benefit depends on the subrace (if I'm interpreting it correctly). AC is normally a function of class, this overrides it. It also grants a very high AC, because proficiency bonus is added: a wizard can start with an AC of 16. I rate this (1.5)
• Death saving throw (0.5)

The base race scores 6.

Tactician:

• Two tool proficiencies (1) (I'm not sure what a proficiency in siege weapons does)
• Advantage on narrow sub-use of skill (0.5)
• A cantrip (0.5)
• Total: 8

Juggernaut:

• Scaling damage reduction against three common damage types (1)
• Lasting Injury (0)
• Advantage against uncommon effect (0.5)
• Total: 7.5

Scout:

• Darkvision (1)
• + 5ft. speed (0.5)
• Optionally small (0)

Total: 7.5

As I mention above, the target score is 4.5 Marasmusine (talk) 02:35, 14 January 2017 (MST)

Okay, cool. I think I'm grasping it. Did some weeding of abilities to help it still retain identity without blowing other races out of the water. I removed the Paralysis immunity and the additional death saving throw. Changed tactician to offer a tool or a vehicle to keep each subrace @ 1.5. I also went through and decided while trying to clear up what a "Living Construct" was decided to phrase it as all of the pro's and con's of being a humanoid construct. All-in-all making them vulnerable to things that harm and help both. Not sure if that's really a negative, will need to research more to know the full scope of that choice. So far it seems to offer a whole extra set of weaknesses without offering too much in return. I think I managed to shave it down to 5.5 MAYBE even 5. But that just means more work is needed.

I may need to change 1/2 heal mechanic to be all healing except from repairs, but that that feels a bit drastic. The siege weapons bit was for massive war campaigns, found it mentioned in either the DMG or an UA article. Removed though to less confusion, feels like a campaign specific thing anyway. For the Juggernaut, Lasting Injury was supposed to be an offset to the DR of Solid Construction. Overall take less physical, but doesn't hold up to magical or heavy hitting abuse over time. Would it help to put them under the same "bullet"? I do agree that the Body of War feature is definitely worth the 1.5 it has, but also is the piece that I feel helps me establish the race. The only other race that offers a 14 or higher possible AC out of the gate is the Mountain Dwarf with it's access to medium armor. I do feel that that is a PHB race that is probably a 5 by the point measure.--Gr7mm Bobb (talk) 01:24, 15 January 2017 (MST)

If there is a balance issue, please use the Discussion Page before making adjustments

To the individual using IP 72.49.154.29, The AC calculation of the juggernaut is the same as that of a 1st level character starting with Chailmail. The most basic and freely given of heavy armors. This is to ensure balance throughout all levels of play, as the juggernauts AC continues to improve based on the characters class progression, which is the closest thing available to measure a PC's growth + power. The present AC of 14 + Prof is a product of extensive play-testing and balance. The subrace (and race for that matter) alraedy leans heavily in the combat section of the game between its "natural" AC and prof and ability to mitigate physical damages from small arms combat. Increasing the AC to 16 + Prof would only further upset the intent to allow the races natural ability (ie no magic) to lie cleanly and comfortably within 5e's bound accuracy model.--Gr7mm Bobb (talk) 08:00, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Updating here so there is a record. Until I say otherwise, the Juggernauts AC formula is 13+ Proficiency. Getting really annoyed with seeing con mod on it disrupting the heck out of the growth style of AC this race has. If you want more starting AC, integrate some higher AC armor.--Gr7mm Bobb (talk) 12:45, 26 February 2018 (MST)

I just want to clarify, that's not how armor class works. When you have a natural armor calculation, it trumps normal means of calculating armor class. So in this case, you can't wear armor to increase your starting armor class. Hope that helps a little bit. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 13:18, 26 February 2018 (MST)

The overall design of this race, since I first tackled it conceptually, was to provide a race with "natural" AC that progressed with the character. As the game progresses each character with access to armor get the opportunity to trade out their current armor for a newer, better set. With the formula as it is the juggernaut starts off one point behind anyone in chainmail and by 17th level is 1 point up on full plate. If the formula used an ability modifier instead though, it completely disrupts that even progression previously provided for a lot of potential starting power out the gate. The growing AC of the race is to provide a sense of mastery of body and methods they implement to better protect themselves with said body. And you are correct that they cannot just wear armor on top of their existing armor plating. I made a section after the race to describe the process of "armor integration" to provide options. It was to allow the warforged to not lose out on the benefits of magical armor. It also allows for the warforged with proficiency's to benefit from boons like receiving chain mail at level 1 (potentially turning the juggernauts AC from 15 to 16). I will admit it is a bit of an odd design approach, but so far it has been the most most effective one that utilizes pre-existing overhead game design to check itself. Once again though super appreciate to back-up on this project. Someone being there to as "Are you sure?" is very useful.--Gr7mm Bobb (talk) 11:19, 28 February 2018 (MST)

I think armor integration is a good idea. I would replace artificial anatomy with it. Why doesn't healing work on them? They are living constructs, emphasis on the living. No being able to heal could provide serious set backs, which might decrease appeal to play this. I know you have repair kits and if its a design feature which wish to keep, then are the kits used up? How do you get more? BigShotFancyMan (talk) 13:51, 28 February 2018 (MST)

Healing magic only "sort of" works on them. They have bodies whose latent healing capabilities must be encouraged. The repair kits only hold supplies for 20 emergency uses but can be used normally without limit. It has tools and such that a warforged can use to tend to itself to allow for repairs to takes place. Resupplying the supplies within the repair kits is something that is done like any other mundane item, you can buy supplies to refill its emergency uses or even try to make the supplies yourself (with the proper facilitates of course, i suspect a blacksmith is a good RP start). The armor integration isn't so much an additional trait or anything, just a rule that is made around them and their oddball anatomy. If clarification is needed I can drop a hint about it in the Body of War trait, but that feels redundant since the information about armor integration is just below the info about the kit. Its a race that is extremely well protected against attacks, but the nip to healing magic and requirement for repairs helps to reasonably balance the sleeplessness of the race from a mechanical and even an RP position. Yes the warforged are closer to living than a suit of animated armor, but not as much as an animated tree would be. I hope this helps. Side note, should I just tack armor integration onto the Body of War trait?--Gr7mm Bobb (talk) 23:11, 1 March 2018 (MST)

Well, the way I see it, Armor Integration is like a mechanical thing for the race. Like, how it functions. Making it a trait seems appropriate. BigShotFancyMan (talk) 08:35, 2 March 2018 (MST)