Talk:Vampire, Variant (5e Class)

I am interested in doing some work on this class, I will take a look through it tonight.--Vladmere.Labefactum (talk) 09:21, 30 July 2016 (MDT)

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So I made a whole bunch of changes to the class and give it more non-combat abilities as well as some archetypes. tell me what you guys think and whether I said make any changes.--Vladmere.Labefactum (talk) 01:38, 1 August 2016 (MDT)

"you may use one of your hit dice." - clarify how you are using this hit die. I assume it is to regain hit points. Do you also add your Constitution modifier, etc. Marasmusine (talk) 02:37, 1 August 2016 (MDT)

did some balance changes and tiding up, let me know what you think. --Vladmere.Labefactum (talk) 10:44, 1 August 2016 (MDT)

done some play tests and ran through a few mechanics of the class it seems to be working well. It also seems to scale in line with core classes, will be addressing a few more things over the coming weeks.--Vladmere.Labefactum (talk) 01:03, 4 September 2016 (MDT)

Blood is life. Just need a bit of clarification.

• "You can only spend Hit Dice....", it might be obvious what it means, but it should be mechanically clear. Is this "You can only spend Hit Dice to regain lost hit points during a short rest..."? What kind of creatures can be fed on? (can I keep a pet mouse and just feed on that?) Is there a detrimental effect on the creature?
• Don't say "per short rest" as it is ambiguous as to when you get the feature back.
• "Adjacent to you" -> "a creature you can touch". Adjacency is a legacy term.
• Does this take up an action? Or does it take longer? Or does it only occur during a short rest?
• If I understand this right, say I'm 10th level and I feed on the party's fighter, you expend one of their HD and one of mine. If I have 16 CHA, I regain 1d10 + 1d8 + 3 + 4? Marasmusine (talk) 11:14, 6 September 2016 (MDT)

Okay, I'm not fond of features that say "you can use this feature X times", or classes that have a lot of "per long rests". I would prefer the class to have a unified Points to draw from (like sourcery points and ki points and superiority dice) and use this to power everything that says "per short/long rest", now I only have to keep track of one thing (unless its a feature you want to be strict only only being used once). Marasmusine (talk) 14:07, 6 September 2016 (MDT)

Hello, time for more feedback. These are just my immediate thoughts, I'm not looking at overall balance.

• Vampiric Reflexes is okay.
• Once mortal is okay.
• Unarmed Combatant
  • It gives you proficiency in unarmed strikes, but you are already proficient, since it is a simple weapon.
  • An unarmed strike is a melee weapon attack, you wouldn't do it instead of one.
  • What's the rationale for pinning, it makes the class seem like a wrestler than a vampire.
• Slow Fall has an odd calculation but is okay.
• Extra attack, typical for a frontline character.
• Hidden Might is okay.
• Evasion is okay.
• Undead Fortiude is an odd name, because it works on mental conditions. I would change this to an additional saving throw each turn: When you are charmed your character doesn't realise they are charmed, so wouldn't think to spend the action.
• Night Crawler is okay.
• Enduring Soul. Might be worth you looking at how temporary hit points work: they don't stack, and they don't add on to hit points, so you wouldn't be "above half your maximum hit points".
• more later. Marasmusine (talk) 16:44, 10 September 2016 (MDT)

Well, i have got alot to go through but lets get to it. Firstly i understand that some of this is written up poorly I will edit it soon.

-When you use a hit dice it is to regen hp and you add your con mod like normal i will add that into the power to clarify it.

-Yes this was badly written up after I have read it, it should read as Once during a rest you can feed on an helpless or willing creature you can touch using one of their hit dice and one of your own to regain hit points equal to your your hit dice + Con Modifier + Cha modifier + Proficiency. If this ability is used on a Tiny sized creature it dies afterwards. Note this does not work on constructs, elementals, oozes and undead, and the hit dice the creature spends is essentially their lifeforce being drained from them you do not add their hit dice to the health you regain. You regain use of this feature after a short rest.

-As for the short rest thing it follows a trait that is used in 5e quite alot, a short rest is a 1 hour break for characters were they can use hit dice to regen hits points or recover abilities and spells. most of the fighters abilities return after a short rest.

-The blood is life ability would take up an action in a short rest, it would not interrupt your rest.

-If you are a 10th level vampire with a 16 in Cha your regain amount would be 1d8 + Con + 3 + 4, which is a a nice amount of hp to get back in a short rest. But I'm thinking to changing it to 1d8 + con + Vampire level to make it more relevant at later levels.

-The reason i set it up with amount of uses is because i could not get the level table to add the extra column i wanted and i could not get the spells table to show up by itself under the archtype of the beguiler, if you could show me how that would be awesome, that way i can make a Sanguine Point system that means tracking will be so much easier.

-The rules as per the players handbook are unclear on the unarmed proficiency, i used that as per the tavern brawler feature from the players hand book and it states that you require proficiency with unarmed attacks. If the rule states that all characters can use unarmed strikes as long as they are proficiency with simple weapons i will rewrite this to make more sense.

-The reason i went into the whole grapple thing is because during play test, i found it was to easy to pull of healing and it was little risk for high reward most of the time. Vampires in dnd are known for grabbing their prey and dragging them away to feed on them, so I thought why not make the healing have a bit more of a risk to it making it so they have to grapple and restraint their target so they can feed of them. Not many people when rewriting up a vampire class actually put this to use but at later levels you should be able to grapple someone and use your night crawler ability to take them up a ceiling for a bit of a nimble and this could be used to give your enemies a bit of a fright.

-To be honest the undead fortitude was almost a copy and paste from one of the monk abilities, undead are normally immune to such effects so I might reword it better to make sense or change it over all.

-Enduring soul is the major problem child of this class, regen is a feature in dnd that has also been very strong and should not be given to players lightly. how this is meant to work is(because i worded it badly) because i did not want to give the vampire access to regen that out shines the champion fighter arch type i decided to make it temporary hit points instead, i am aware that they don't stake, but because you have ways of healing your self you can hopefully get your health back up. how it works it that it essentially refreshes every turn give you a chance to stand up and keep fighting, while this seems strong it is only available while you are below 50% hp and if you go down it no longer works. i might edit the wording slightly to fix issues on this matter.

thanks for the honest read through. Also bit could i get some feed back on the feral archetype, it personally don't like it because it is a boring combat monkey. But it was needed because feral vampires do exist and they are quite crazy strong. should i make it something similar to the oath breaker paladin from the php or something else. let me know what you think.--Vladmere.Labefactum (talk) 06:52, 22 September 2016 (MDT)

I don't remember it having quite so much stuff. I think the spell slots are only for the beguiler option? If so, they need to go in their own table in that section (like with the PHB eldritch knight) or I'm going to get confused when looking at balance (at 18th level it looks like you get an ability score improvement and a class feature and a new spell slot level).

You normally wouldn't get an ability score improvement and a class feature, but that happens four times here, and the ability score improvement is better than normal, and some of the conjoined features are quite powerful. I let slow fall slide, as its fairly minor, but at 8 and 12 there are powerful attacks and teleportation. Marasmusine (talk) 05:24, 30 December 2016 (MST)

So the spell slots are for the beguiler option only but the problem is i dont know how to put that table into the beguiler section only, i also wish to add a new sectipn to the main table call 'Crimson points' so i can balance the class features better as for the better ability scores i changed em temporarily because the class gained more weaknesses but thats still up for review, im going to try clump some features together to reduce overall thickness of the class. Hopefully the tables can be fixed soon Cheers.--Vladmere.Labefactum (talk) 07:58, 31 December 2016 (MST)

"While you are wearing no armor you AC equals 10 + Dexterity + Charisma." This sounds a bit OP, unless you meant dexterity and charisma -modifiers-

Vast Improvements

Greetings All

I have finally made time to go through this class and do some major balance changes, hopefully it is getting much close to a decently balanced class soon. It was on the strong side before, now I think it is in a good spot for now. let me know what you all think and thanks for the support and help!

Cheers --Vladmere.Labefactum (talk) 11:39, 31 December 2016 (MST)

To those editing

Hello to those individuals who have been editing this class and making it overpowered, i would prefer it if you did not give a 1/3rd caster access to 8th level spells and that you did not buff the damage of abilities without giving reason. Please if you are making changes leave feed back on why they have been changedIi have play tested this class in 3 different campaigns now and would prefer proper feed back.--Vladmere.Labefactum (talk) 21:36, 16 February 2017 (MST)

Questions

"While you are wearing no armor you AC equals 10 + Dexterity + Charisma." This sounds a bit OP, unless you meant dexterity and charisma -modifiers-? Otherwise, a character with 15 dex and con would have 40 AC.