Talk:Valkrym (5e Class)

Am I misreading this? Full spellcasting from the combined spell lists of two classes, and they get additional class features on the levels they gain a new spell slot level and additional class features when they gain an ability score increase, and 1d10 hit dice with medium armor and effectively martial weapon proficiency with extra weapon damage? Marasmusine (talk) 09:32, 21 October 2016 (MDT)

Also gets more skills than any other class. I think we've officially hit Mary Sue status.

I'm going to take a look at the class features now.

• Shadowblend. So from 1st level, you have perfect, permanent invisibility (unless you're caught out a field or something)
• Spellcasting. So they get access to two different class spell lists. AND they don't have to learn the spells, they can freely prepare from them like a cleric!
• Dark Repulsion. 5e doesn't have a "dazed" condition. The 11th level enhancement doesn't have a range (should be something like 30 feet, and only against a creature and ally you can see)
• Grip of Shadows. "50 yards". "hostile mob" Please can you use D&D terminology. It says this is a spell, but it isn't a spell.
• Piercing Gaze. Happens passively all the time, so introduces an annoying number of additional die rolls. Hit has a Frightened or Charmed-like effect without using those conditions, so works even against creatures immune to Frightened or Charmed. There's no definition for "divine" or "magically protected". It has round-counting, which was removed in 5e in favour of repeating saving throws.
• Aegis of the Dark. This is AC 18 at 3rd level (Int 18), and AC 23 at 12th level (Int 20).l This is absurd given their strong spellcasting and good hit points. They get +4 to their spell save DC too, which is a massive bonus.
• And here come the wings. Inevitable for a Mary Sue, I guess. It's not enough that they can already cast the fly spell.
• Half way through, I'm done for now. Marasmusine (talk) 02:58, 22 October 2016 (MDT)

Oop, I just spotted Soul Siphon. I guess you don't need to use Hit Dice or take rests any more. Just punch a wild animal until you're topped up to max HP.Marasmusine (talk) 03:04, 22 October 2016 (MDT)

Rewrite

I will make design notes as I go, give me feedback. Marasmusine (talk) 03:54, 28 October 2016 (MDT)

• Valkrym seems to be a front-line fighter (d10 HD, weapons, armor) and spellcaster (full spellcasting), so I am going to use the Paladin as a baseline. This means changing to half-spellcasting; also reduced skills from 5 to 2.
• Dark Weapon. Simplifying this, assume that the PC has already seen all the weapons he might want to create; fixed damage bonus; removing the dual-wielding since the PC will need one hand free for spellcasting. Knocking off the necrotic type per the misconception that dark/shadows = necrotic. Since Intelligence is their prime ability score, they can use this to make weapon attacks with a dark weapon.
• Spellcasting. Uses Charisma, since its appropriate for channeling godly power, and so there's a split with fighting ability (Int). Will make a custom spell list, I think that some features can be migrated to spells (such as flight).
  • Removed innate power, as this is now covered by spellcasting focus.
  • The valkrym has several themes to its features: stealth, mobility, mind-affecting, and so on.
  • There's no need for "piercing gaze" and "dark command" if we add hold person and dominate person to the spell list (along with some related spells). Removing silver tongue / fearmonger, as we can add charm person and fear.
  • The blinkshift and planeshift have similar effects in dimension door, misty step, blink and blur.
  • Grip of Shadows = Black Tentacles almost exactly.
  • Soul Siphon = Vampiric Touch
  • Unlocked Potential has the actual literal telekinesis spell, so that can go in. Telepathy is an 8th level spell, so replacing that with detect thoughts
  • Adding some spells that fit the theme of "judgement": hunter's mark, judgement, a few different smites, detect and dispel evil and good.
  • Added invisibility and nondetection for the "stealth" theme.
• Twilight Sight now needs activating, but is superior darkvision, so that it benefits any race (except drow).

Original Creator Notes

OK, I'm fairly impressed so far with how the rewrite is going. There are a few notes, if I may?

• Silver Tongue / Fearmonger was designed as a passive proficiency bonus.
• Why not have "Aegis of the Dark" as a constant effect, rather than one that weakens in sunlight?
• Having gotten rid of "Soul Siphon", "Darkened Soul" now essentially makes the class MUCH weaker, as healing is reduced.

That's all for now.

-- DrENigma

Thanks for your feedback. Soul Siphon will be making a comeback in the form of additional uses of vampiric touch, along with some others, in a fashion similar to the warlock's eldritch invocations. I'll also adjust silver tongue and aegis as you suggested. I'm still considering how much of a divide to make between in sunlight / out of sunlight. Marasmusine (talk) 14:31, 28 October 2016 (MDT)

Well, the Abilities that weakened in sunlight have either been removed/tweaked, so there really is no penalty for being in sunlight anymore. So the Valkrym is very like a dark caster now, but still a unique class. DrENigma (talk) 21:52, 28 October 2016 (GMT)

I'm leaving myself open for putting the weakened features in, for example if there's a feature that lets you use the fly spell without using a spell slot, it has limited speed in sunlight per the original text.

I'm also thinking of having 2 archetypes, one focused on spellcasting (the "Charisma" path) and one focused on fighting with the dark weapon (the "Intelligence" path). This will let me keep more features in. Marasmusine (talk) 02:49, 30 October 2016 (MDT)

• Added silvertonge/fearmonger back in (as "intense soul"). I don't know what "+4 advantage" meant, so I used double proficiency bonus per the 5e style of not using stacking bonuses.
• Made siphon soul and swift spell into Shadow Bends to limit their usage, added them to different paths.
• Blinkshift back in as a misty step reaction to using a Shadow Bend.
• Dark Infusion is now a spellcasting-path shadow bend that increases damage by letting you reroll damage die (rather than an additional die)

Apocalypse

I'm thinking about how to handle Apocalypse. In its original form, it's so disruptive it could be called "destroy campaign". It's the sort of thing that would have to be worked into the narrative, working with the DM. The DM is under no obligation to allow you to destroy everything in a 6,000 ft. radius (including Gods?!).

Even in a lessened form, you should not be able to save this up for the Big Bad of the campaign and wipe them out in one action.

I will instead make this the equivalent of a 9th-level spell, so it will pack a punch beyond the spells the valkrym can normally cast. Marasmusine (talk) 02:13, 11 November 2016 (MST)

Done?!

Everything from the original is in here, in some modified form, I think. I am adding multiclassing, since if you're a (for example) 2nd-level cleric / 2nd-level valkyrm, it shouldn't matter too much what class you happened to pick first. Marasmusine (talk) 03:32, 12 November 2016

Gloomstep

I don't want the DM to have to track what spaces have shadows in. If you're indoors, you can argue that the interior space is in shadow. If you outdoors, you might be in the shadow of a cloud. If you're underground, there might be light sources moving around everywhere. If it's bright, or you're in a brightly lit space, there might be enough characters moving around everywhere to have a shadow in a particular space at some point throughout a 10-second round. Let's not have the flow of a battle grind to a halt while the DM and player argue about "is there a shadow here". Keep It Simple. Marasmusine (talk) 01:13, 17 November 2016 (MST)

Another anonymous IP with a not-great edit. I am semi-protecting this until the OP has chance to assess it. Marasmusine (talk) 10:36, 19 November 2016 (MST)

Um, uh oh, I'm seeing a lot of unbalanced features creeping back in. What's happening. Marasmusine (talk) 02:00, 26 November 2016 (MST)

Don't panic, I'm changing it back. I have back ups on a .txt file. --DrENigma (talk) 17:10, 30 November 2016 (MST)

Okay, I'm trimming some of this stuff back out, I'm afraid it doesn't work well. For example, you added an "innate power" feat that lets you eschew material components, but you can already do this with your spellcasting focus (that's what it's for). Then there's the regeneration. Marasmusine (talk) 02:13, 11 January 2017 (MST)

I think we had better discuss, one by one, what features you want adding, so we can find space for them, rather than just adding a lot of overpowered stuff. It might mean adding a new archetype, or making some of them Shadow Blends. Marasmusine (talk) 02:22, 11 January 2017 (MST)

Oh, DrENigma, now what? I asked you to discuss changes first. Marasmusine (talk) 12:12, 28 January 2017 (MST)