Talk:Unmade (5e Race)

Um, do you need help with this, it's not very balanced at all. You've added enough traits to make a racial class. Ideals have associated alignments, not personality traits. Marasmusine (talk) 07:42, 21 August 2016 (MDT)

About the Unmade race it actually requires the Host trait, it's a massive part of what makes this race what it is. ShiroYami (talk) 03:55, 7 October 2016 (MDT)

Okay, I presume this is the Bond trait? In a moment I will reprint the text, and I'll go through it and we'll see if we can improve it. Marasmusine (talk) 07:26, 7 October 2016 (MDT)

Okay. ShiroYami (talk) 07:29, 7 October 2016 (MDT)

"Bond. At level one you may choose someone to bond with, this however MUST be stated by your background. Bonding with a being however makes it lose 20% of it's health(This 20% of health may not be regained, unless the bond is severed which can only be done through killing it's bonded host), it can telepathically speak to the host. The Unmade enters it's host's body when sleeping, thusly it only needs as much sleep as it's host, if it doesn't have a host it sleeps as long as the whole party does to count as a short or long rest. At level 15, the unmade gains the ability to retreat into the body of it's host after it is killed. Here it will remain until a month, or a week(If the DM allows it) has passed and it will reforge itself, this ability may only be used once per long rest.(Maybe more if the DM allows it) Necrotic Life: At level 9 the unmade gains the ability to take half of the necrotic damage it causes to return to it as health, it can also share the health regained with it's host. At level 15 it can take all necrotic damage it causes as health, if it has a host it shares half or more of it's HP returned with that host."

• "may choose" - this is an optional trait, but you also say it's required.
• "someone to bond with, this however MUST be stated by your background." - What background is this? Can it an NPC or a PC or an animal? Do they have to be willing?
• "lose 20% of it's health" - there isn't a statistic called "health". Do you mean hit points? maximum hit points? Constitution?
• "The Unmade enters it's host's body when sleeping" - is this the process of bonding, or is it something that can happen after the bond? Is it when the unmade is sleeping or when the host is sleeping?
  • If it is not the bonding process itself, what exactly is the bonding process? Are the two physically bound together or can they move independently? What is the range on the telepathy?
• "to count as a short or long rest" - sleeping and short/long rests are not the same thing. It doesn't matter how long you sleep, a long rest is always at least 8 hours.
• "retreat into the body of it's host after it is killed." - after the unmade is killed or the host?
• "Here it will remain until a month, or a week(If the DM allows it) has passed and it will reforge itself, this ability may only be used once per long rest." - What does this mean? (and I'm not sure if a long rest is relevant at this timescale)
• "the unmade gains the ability to take half of the necrotic damage it causes to return to it as health, it can also share the health regained with it's host." - By "health", I will assume you mean "hit points". What this means is that, as long as it can deal necrotic damage, it can top its hit points up to maximum, which is not fair.
• I cover a lot of the wording and gameplay issues at Class Do's and Don'ts (5e Guideline).

Once I have clarification on some of this, I can recommend some changes. Marasmusine (talk) 07:44, 7 October 2016 (MDT)

It is more required for my campaign and one of my characters, so it isn't truly required, but it should be there. You must choose a player to bond with, meaning you have to work out how your character and another player's character came together to bond, this is only a small addition you add to the background, for example were you to choose the Experiment (5e Background) the unmade would be what is experimented with (being injected into a person, or something like that), the unmade retreats into the body of the host if the unmade dies, meaning if the host dies with it inside then it also completely dies, the fact that it remains in the body of the host for a month or week, simply means that if it's form dies then while it is inside the host it is busy recreating/resurrecting itself. I didn't mean that it gains half hit points if it does necrotic damage, i meant that it gains half of the necrotic damage it dealt back as health(Essentially a life steal). The bond is one in which the Unmade and it's host are apart, but linked through spirit, not sure of how long the range of telepathy would be, the unmade which is essentially a spirit, basically places 20%(Which is why 20% of it's HP is drained) of it's being into the host's spirit, this piece fuses with the spirit, thus when the Unmade retreats into the hosts body it more like retreats to it's part placed inside of the host, this piece of it gains energy little by little(Waiting for the host to regain his energy, before taking more) from the hosts spirit and this energy is then given to the Unmade to use as power to resurrect itself with, I could rather make it once per day or once per week. ShiroYami (talk) 08:33, 7 October 2016 (MDT)

Here is my suggestion:

Variant

Bonded Unmade

When you create your unmade character, choose one other player character to be bonded with. Work with that player and your DM to decide how the bond occured, using your respective backgrounds as a guide. The other player character is known as your host.

You can communicate telepathically with your host if they are within 1 mile of you.

When your host is sleeping or in a trance, you can enter their body if you can move to its space. While you are in your hosts body, you cannot be the target of an attack. If they are sleeping, you also sleep; if they are in a trance then you are also in a trance. When the host wakes, you appear in an empty space within 5 feet of them. If you were in the hosts body for the full duration of their sleep or trance, you also benefit from a full sleep.

If you die while you are within 1 mile your host, your spirit form immediately retreats into your host's body. Whenever your host finishes a short or long rest, they can spend one Hit Die to help reconstitute you. When a number of Hit Dice equal to your own Hit Dice has been spent in this way, you return to life in an empty space within 5 feet of your host as though you were the target of a raise dead spell.

I understood what you meant with the life steal. Every hit-point-regaining feature in D&D has some limit to prevent it from replacing spending Hit Dice to regain hit points in a short rest. Cure spells use up spell slots. A fighter's Survivor trait only takes up to half maximum (it is also being very high level). We can't assume that the PC is limited in what it can attack and what necrotic attacks it has (chill touch cantrips through a flock of sheep springs to mind).

I'm also not sure how the life steal relates to the bond/host feature. Marasmusine (talk) 04:09, 8 October 2016 (MDT)

Yes that would work. The life steal is added to the bond because as you and your host's spirits are "fused"(With lack of better word) you can add of the life you have stolen instead of to yourself, you can give it to your host. Also what abilities should I give to the Unbonded variant. ShiroYami (talk) 05:50, 8 October 2016 (MDT)

This is in response to the "is it finished" query on my talk page. Somewhere along the line the 5e racial traits template was carefully removed, so that needs to go back in. The random height and weight table needs filling in. The Large size is new, this gives them a huge advantage (most significantly, unless you say otherwise, they can use Large weapons). Intangible has changed from 1 turn, to "end of battle". That isn't a duration in 5e, you would use "for 1 minute" instead. Now it's too powerful. I don't know what the two "bonded" sets of traits are. Are they subraces or variants? There's little wording errors all over (e.g. armor of the dark's "you do gain however", you don't gain this AC, see similar traits in the PHB to see how to word this_) Marasmusine (talk) 08:55, 18 October 2016 (MDT)

Most of those features wasn't even my choice, there's like at least five people constantly changing this race. ShiroYami (talk) 08:20, 19 October 2016 (MDT)

I think it's better now. ShiroYami (talk) 08:46, 19 October 2016 (MDT)

• Intangible either needs to be for 1 round, or if it's going to last for 1 minute, it needs a recharge.
• "Insane Words. You are proficient in charisma, especially in driving people mad." doesn't make sense.
• "Necrotic Will. You may add 1d4 necrotic damage to any weapon you wield." is way too powerful (think of the monks).
• Shadow home doesn't have clear mechanics, and makes an assumption about how XP is awarded. Marasmusine (talk) 08:54, 19 October 2016 (MDT)

Should I just remove the unbonded then?

• not sure if im doing this right**

i suggest make the bound names into something more refined like host bound (bonded) and Item bound (unbound)

therefore you can have a form to fight in with the item bound as like a set of armor (i have stuff for this if you require elaboration)

intangible should last a number of rounds equal to at least half your level as for insane words marasmusine i believe its flavor text bud... necrotic will isnt bad because if you think about it its only 1d4 even at larter levels its still max of 4 damage not alot

• "...gain advantage on defending from nonmagical weapon attacks". How does that work, then? Marasmusine (talk)

Believe me I'm just as confused as you are, I didn't write it. ShiroYami (talk) 13:01, 21 April 2017 (UTC)

Tried to do some balancing.

Me and a few friends tried to do some balancing since someone we know wants this race. It's a pretty hard class to balance in general due to how many damn features there are, but we kept most of them, We took damage off, put some things behind level walls, and made things have cool downs. The class is still probably overpowering, but I think now it isn't game breaking.

How is 8 hours rather than a week balancing? ShiroYami (talk) 07:10, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Well I guess that it means you can continue leveling with the party, ShiroYami (talk) 07:16, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

We thought that a week is too long, and it could keep you out of an adventure for a long time, or the rest of the adventure. It's just too much of a hastle that can ruin the flow, so we made 8 hours, a long rest time. Plus the flesh-bonded already can come back after a short rest for free, so it's not really buffing the feature, just making it feel better. Khajeetofthesands (talk) 20:11, 22 April 2017 (UTC)