Talk:Torment Puzzle (3.5e Spell)

Comments and Reviews

Perhaps for the backfire effect, make it happen if someone passes it by more than 10? Since virtually no one is every going to get even close to 17 over the save (the earliest one could cast said spell). And spells like this are the reason I'm glad there's Mettle in the game, heh ;-) Though even as it is now, I think stunning someone for 1 round per CL on a *made* save is a bit much... perhaps just one round? Especially since most people are virtually helpless while stunned, it basically boils down to who casts this spell first if there's ever a duel. Plus, would this work on undead, oozes, elementals, and other creatures that don't really care about specific "parts" of their body? --Ghostwheel 03:02, 31 July 2009 (MDT)

If a target makes the fortitude save, and takes 25d6 points of damage, there is a huge chance (around 80% guesstimate..more than 66% for sure) that the player will take over 50 points of damage, and unless it is a construct or undead, the target must make a fortitude save of 15 or die. See [Damage] for full info. This makes the spell too overpowered in my mind. Even if the player does make both fortitude saves, it is possible that the average 75 points of damage would kill it. --Havvy 22:00, 31 July 2009 (MDT)

Eh, at that level, people are bound to make the Fort save with ease, and 75 damage isn't all that much at that level either. The biggy is that even if they make the save, they're still screwed up the wazoo. --Ghostwheel 22:27, 31 July 2009 (MDT)

The damage on this spell is perfectly fine. The stun is not. A stun, with no save to negate is a really, really bad idea. Dragon Child 13:08, 1 August 2009 (MDT)

Exactly, especially one that lasts 1 round/level --Ghostwheel 13:09, 1 August 2009 (MDT)

Thanks for all your reviews. After taking a look at what you guys have to say and I realized what a horrible thing I have done. Surely anyone being stunned for at least 17 rounds with no saves is a goner, and I didn't mean that to happen. After I modify this spell I am also going to go through my other Torture Domain spells and make corrections where it seems required.

As for the Torment Puzzle spell, I want your opinions to what I should do with the stun effect. Here is what I am considering:

• stunned for only one round

I am willing to take the proposal made by Ghostwheel. This will sum up to 1d6 damage/caster level and 1 round of stun. But, it is possible this is still too powerful, because that one round of stun could be used for a decisive blow.

• only stun

Possibly not a good idea. Stun only is still a crazy idea.

• only damage

That sounds much better. And characters facing a spell caster that can use Torment Puzzle should be tough enough to survive that damage. I mean, if they couldn't take the damage, they were either picking on the wrong guy or they were picked by the wrong guy. But I will reduce the damage if it seems too strong.

• damage and other conditions

Conditions that are less severe than being stunned. Options may be fatigued, shaken, dazzled, sickened, nauseated, and so on. Of course, it doesn't make sense suffering from these effects from something that attempted to rip your body apart.

• I come up with my own original conditions

Now that's not fair is it... but so is being ripped to pieces and going through severe torture.

• Other proposals by reviewers

I am open to opinions made by others.

I am also thinking about giving specific numbers of pieces (like pieces equal to HD). From there, destroyed pieces can be directly related to the exact hp the victim has. And perhaps I might put an area effect of how the piece flies to places. Another modification might be that every round the pieces recover to full health, which will be the effect that keeps the victim alive. I am not sure what to do with critical hit, for although any vital organ is surely exposed, the victim is kept alive by magical means.

Finally, about this spell being used on creature types other than playable characters. This spell (and all Torture Domain spells) specifies that it is used against a living creature, and it is debatable that some creatures are even alive in the first place. Here are my opinions about other creature types:

• construct type

What the hell are you thinking trying to torture a creature that doesn't have a mind? Wait, that thing has a mind? And they don't seem like an alive kind of a creature so don't waste your spell on it.

• elemental type

Hmm, creatures that do not eat, sleep, breathe, and immune to stun and poison. Creatures that a torturer generally wouldn't be interested in, but it is alive right? And guess what, this spell is not something that specifies its damage in the vital organs of a victim. Nor does it care that the victim is a body-and-soul creature.

• Ooze type

These creatures are meant to split... but only when they grow into a size large enough. Some oozes have rules for being attacked by sharp object, but even they have a limit of hit points. Therefore they too are possible victim of this spell. If they are considered alive.

• Undead type

Are they alive? And will an evil necromancy spell affect undead in a way that will hurt them? What do you think? If you can cast this spell, you probably have a better way to handle undead anyways.

If it wasn't clear, each pieces are treated as individuals, but the entire mass of flesh is treated as a whole. Like a swarm. Maybe I should make a swarm of flesh creature type, and say the victim is turned into that?

Anyways, thanks for watching! I hope anyone can find a solution to my flawed spell, given my mindless babble. Feel free to respond, complement, or criticize. Sincerely, Kaden 19:58, 1 August 2009 (PDT)

Stun for 1 round is fine. It's a 9th level spell, after all. --TK-Squared 10:43, 2 August 2009 (MDT)

Thanks for the support! I have changed it to stun for 1 round. kaden 15:09, 5 August 2009 (PDT)